Gulf between League 2 and National League

GladToBeHere
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Gulf between League 2 and National League

Post by GladToBeHere » Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:46 am

A topic widely discussed on many forums no doubt.

Thought it was interesting to see yesterday that both clubs promoted into League 2 last season: Barrow and Harrogate both fared well, the matter very well with a significant away victory.

Made me think, how big is the gap between National league(NL) and League 2(L2). So many clubs are now full time in the NL And the gulf in the NL itself doesn’t appear limited to playing status of part or full time, out result from last year is testament to that.
What then makes the difference...? I’m not certain, can it be alone the payment from the Football League..? Maybe as so many clubs that fall into NL from L2 struggle to return immediately or soon after.

All of this really is leading to my final point which is: How come L2 has restarted and the NL hasn’t? I think the gulf between the two leagues is marginal, especially bottom of L2 and top 6 if not 10 teams in the NL. I’d be even more frustrated if our campaign becomes delayed further beyond what is already an unnecessary delay we are currently in - just my opinion.

cardinalcannon
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Re: Gulf between League 2 and National League

Post by cardinalcannon » Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:08 am

GladToBeHere wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:46 am
All of this really is leading to my final point which is: How come L2 has restarted and the NL hasn’t?
My understanding is that itt's nothing to do with the FT/PT status of teams in the National League when compared to the EFL, it's because at NL level many clubs are significantly more dependent on the matchday income of the paying punter - with no clearance for crowds of any size to gather at NL level that means that the club's can't gain any income.

In comparison, whilst the EFL teams are also restricted from having people in the ground for matches, they have other sponsorship monies from the league and from TV companies to help bridge the gap over the next few weeks until the supposed Oct 1st change that may allow some in person attendance.

It looks like some form of streaming of NL games may be coming but it's yet to be seen how that will look exactly and whether it can even hope to cover some of the costs of running a team at this level - IMO there's no hope whatsoever of it getting near to covering a running budget even at the relatively modest level we have at Woking
Like Rio, I offer nothing.

Red and White Army
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Re: Gulf between League 2 and National League

Post by Red and White Army » Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:30 am

I think Harrogate will do fairly well this year given the financial backing they have. Interesting they managed to change their plastic pitch to grass with minimal fuss (unlike Sutton who kept whinging like they were guaranteed promotion).

Barrow will probably struggle, especially as they’ve lost their manager from last season. Couldn’t have asked for a kinder first match than Stevenage at home.

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Re: Gulf between League 2 and National League

Post by Red and White Army » Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:19 am

Also - have to feel sorry for Barrow fans waiting 50 years to see a football league game then not being allowed in.

oakie
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Re: Gulf between League 2 and National League

Post by oakie » Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:19 pm

Plenty of evidence that, in playing terms, that top half of NL would cope in L2 and in recent years many NL sides have achieved back to back promotions - L2 is the hardest to get promoted into but with four up to L1, the easiest to get promoted out of.

The Cardinal One
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Re: Gulf between League 2 and National League

Post by The Cardinal One » Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:47 pm

Here is a great football question (i’ll Post the answer later):

Question: Since the first conference season in 1992, how many of the clubs getting promoted into The football league have been relegated back to the conference/NL in the following season?
Woking FC's unofficial statistician.

GladToBeHere
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Re: Gulf between League 2 and National League

Post by GladToBeHere » Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:54 pm

The Cardinal One wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:47 pm
Here is a great football question (i’ll Post the answer later):

Question: Since the first conference season in 1992, how many of the clubs getting promoted into The football league have been relegated back to the conference/NL in the following season?
Do we at least get what the parameters for this could be, minimum or maximum number?

darreng
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Re: Gulf between League 2 and National League

Post by darreng » Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:11 pm

The Cardinal One wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:47 pm
Here is a great football question (i’ll Post the answer later):

Question: Since the first conference season in 1992, how many of the clubs getting promoted into The football league have been relegated back to the conference/NL in the following season?
Still none?

Only about 5 have done the reverse.

BonnybridgeCard
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Re: Gulf between League 2 and National League

Post by BonnybridgeCard » Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:47 pm

Haven't considered those promoted through playoffs, but the last "Champion" to go up and come back down the following season was Satanage (promoted after '95-'96 season and relegated back following '96-'97 season).

The season before that, Macclesfield did the same, and season before that Kidderminster did too.

But nothing since Satanage, so 25 years or so since it happened.

BonnybridgeCard
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Re: Gulf between League 2 and National League

Post by BonnybridgeCard » Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:49 pm

And yes...
i have too much time on my hands :)

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Re: Gulf between League 2 and National League

Post by doylie » Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:32 pm

Tell me if I’ve misunderstood something here, but those Conference “Champions” club’s that you mentioned weren’t promoted because their grounds weren’t up to football league standard, so they were still in the Conference the following season?
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Re: Gulf between League 2 and National League

Post by jonwoozley » Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:34 pm

BonnybridgeCard wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:47 pm
Haven't considered those promoted through playoffs, but the last "Champion" to go up and come back down the following season was Satanage (promoted after '95-'96 season and relegated back following '96-'97 season).

The season before that, Macclesfield did the same, and season before that Kidderminster did too.

But nothing since Satanage, so 25 years or so since it happened.
None of them were promoted.
Dual meditates,
Non habetis argentum.

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Re: Gulf between League 2 and National League

Post by jonwoozley » Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:35 pm

The Cardinal One wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:47 pm
Here is a great football question (i’ll Post the answer later):

Question: Since the first conference season in 1992, how many of the clubs getting promoted into The football league have been relegated back to the conference/NL in the following season?
None
Dual meditates,
Non habetis argentum.

BonnybridgeCard
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Re: Gulf between League 2 and National League

Post by BonnybridgeCard » Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:36 pm

Don't i feel like an arse now...

Of course you are both correct!

Adrian
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Re: Gulf between League 2 and National League

Post by Adrian » Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:22 pm

jonwoozley wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:35 pm
The Cardinal One wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:47 pm
Here is a great football question (i’ll Post the answer later):

Question: Since the first conference season in 1992, how many of the clubs getting promoted into The football league have been relegated back to the conference/NL in the following season?
None
Is the correct answer Jon.

The Cardinal One
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Re: Gulf between League 2 and National League

Post by The Cardinal One » Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:56 pm

The answer is.... NONE.

0 out of the 42 teams that have been promoted since 1992/93 have been relegated the following season.

I’d like to see how many of them finished top half in league 2 or even playoffs.

Are there any other leagues in the world that have anywhere near that number of teams that haven’t come straight back down?
Woking FC's unofficial statistician.

Woking Pete
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Re: Gulf between League 2 and National League

Post by Woking Pete » Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:25 pm

The overall gulf between the two leagues is very big.

Perhaps not so big between the top couple of sides in NL and bottom couple in L2, but overall it remains a big gulf.

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Re: Gulf between League 2 and National League

Post by wokingsteve » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:34 am

I would say a very large gulf if you take the example of Salford and Maidenhead.
But no gulf between Stevenage and Stockport.

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Re: Gulf between League 2 and National League

Post by Derek » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:49 am

doylie wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:32 pm
Tell me if I’ve misunderstood something here, but those Conference “Champions” club’s that you mentioned weren’t promoted because their grounds weren’t up to football league standard, so they were still in the Conference the following season?
Yes you had that gap between Wycombe in 93 and Macclesfield in 97!

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Re: Gulf between League 2 and National League

Post by JAM » Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:20 am

Going back to 1 of the comments in the opening comment of this thread. Yes Barrow & Harrogate did start well, but they couldn't have had much easier starts, and I am sure Barrow will not be overly happy with a draw against a side that are lucky to be in the league.

as for Harrogate not making much fuss in changing from plastic to grass, this is true, but they will also be playing the 1st few home games at Doncaster (i believe), which while fans aren't allowed in I wouldn't have thought is that much a problem. I assume that they hope to be back in their own ground by the time that fans are allowed back

Cardelia
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Re: Gulf between League 2 and National League

Post by Cardelia » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:01 pm

JAM wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:20 am
Going back to 1 of the comments in the opening comment of this thread. Yes Barrow & Harrogate did start well, but they couldn't have had much easier starts, and I am sure Barrow will not be overly happy with a draw against a side that are lucky to be in the league.
I'm sure I read somewhere that the EFL like to give newly promoted teams a bit of an easier start in terms of the fixtures. Putting Barrow and Harrogate up against teams who - between them - amassed 41 points, 44 defeats and two relegations last season was about as easy as it comes.


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