Tiresome charade.

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by kansasCard » Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:23 pm

I'll give BLM etc more respect when they get together and paint a neighborhood rather than burn it. When they club together and launch/start a business rather than loot it.
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Cardinal96
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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Cardinal96 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:50 pm

Card Sharp wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:20 pm
When will it stop? When racism ends?
If it was up to me, Yes. What level of racism is acceptable? When do we say "that's enough change now, we can tolerate the remaining racism"? So far, nothing has changed. Nothing is changing.

kansasCard wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:23 pm
I'll give BLM etc more respect when they get together and paint a neighborhood rather than burn it. When they club together and launch/start a business rather than loot it.
Are you fucking joking?

Reminds me of this clip. White people have had a 400 year head start in the US and then wonder why black people, proportionally, own so much less. They have to be activists, they have to kick up a fuss because they're not being heard. And whilst peaceful marches have occurred in every major city in the US and UK, the only thing anyone talks about is the tiny minority who are violent (because guess what, every major newspaper is owned by a rich white guy who doesn't want the system to change).

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Card Sharp » Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:59 pm

My point is on footballers taking a knee, supportng BLM...not the protesters. Separate.

So, should footballers continue ad infinitum? And, if it gets sorted, should they do other gestures for other discrimination? Or is racism against blacks just fashionable at the moment?

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Wafflebutt » Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:00 pm

Card Sharp wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:59 pm
My point is on footballers taking a knee, supportng BLM...not the protesters. Separate.

So, should footballers continue ad infinitum? And, if it gets sorted, should they do other gestures for other discrimination? Or is racism against blacks just fashionable at the moment?
Yes if they want to, yes if they want to and im sure that question in itself could be construed as racist.

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Red Max » Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:09 pm

Sunbrow wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:52 pm
Just taken the knee in the seasons first game so I'll give that a miss. It's now getting ridiculous.
You give it a miss if you want, who cares. It will stop being ridiculous when black lives stop mattering.

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Sunbrow » Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:36 pm

Red Max wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:09 pm
Sunbrow wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:52 pm
Just taken the knee in the seasons first game so I'll give that a miss. It's now getting ridiculous.
You give it a miss if you want, who cares. It will stop being ridiculous when black lives stop mattering.
I go to a game of football for exactly that reason, NOT a for political statement, much as I wouldn't want a football match to break out at a political rally.

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Red and White Army » Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:44 pm

Cardinal96 wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:37 pm
Red and White Army wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:27 pm
I saw that attacks on police are up by 40% since lockdown. Would argue that BLM and racists such as David Lammy and Dawn Butler are indirectly responsible for the majority of this by stoking the fire.

If anything they’ve set race relations back by about 50 years by trying to segregate everything by race: “support black business” being a prime example.
David Lammy and Dawn Buttler arent 'stoking the fire', they're raising the alarm. If the disgusting emails some MPs receive isn't proof that racism in this country is still rife then I don't know what is.

Its so easy for white people such as myself to live our lives and 'not see race', and criticise black people when they bring it up. But that's because we don't have to worry about race. Black people are far more likely to be stopped and searched than white people in the uk. Black people are less likely to own their own home, less likely to attend the best schools, more likely to be unemployed.

People marching through London or taking the knee don't all want to defund the police (which, by the way, doesn't mean abolish). They just want something to change, something needs to change, and so far nothing has. I don't blame anyone who continues to protest, or displays their anger in other ways, because the message still isn't being heard.
Lammy are Butler turning everything in to a race issue isn’t helping anyone. Butler’s baseless claim she was stopped as a result of racial profiling (when it wasn’t even her that was stopped) is an example of her trying to stoke the fire without any evidence.

Lammy claiming every black victim of assault is racist but every white victim is just another fight. He’s definitely a black supremacist which is by definition racist.

Black people are far more likely to be stopped and searched because they’re far more likely to be carrying a weapon. Men are far more likely to be stop and searched than women - is stop and search sexist as well?

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Wafflebutt » Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:51 pm

Sunbrow wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:36 pm
Red Max wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:09 pm


You give it a miss if you want, who cares. It will stop being ridiculous when black lives stop mattering.
I go to a game of football for exactly that reason, NOT a for political statement, much as I wouldn't want a football match to break out at a political rally.
So your ok with all the different minutes silence we have and the logos (poppy etc)on shirts but not with people taking a few seconds to take a knee?

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Card Sharp » Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:07 pm

Wafflebutt wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:00 pm
Card Sharp wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:59 pm
My point is on footballers taking a knee, supportng BLM...not the protesters. Separate.

So, should footballers continue ad infinitum? And, if it gets sorted, should they do other gestures for other discrimination? Or is racism against blacks just fashionable at the moment?
Yes if they want to, yes if they want to and im sure that question in itself could be construed as racist.
Are you calling me one? It was a question, not a statement. Please confirm if you are calling me one.

Actually, do not worry, you have not bothered to read my whole thread and my personal experience in this matter.

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Red and White Army » Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:11 pm

Wafflebutt wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:51 pm
Sunbrow wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:36 pm


I go to a game of football for exactly that reason, NOT a for political statement, much as I wouldn't want a football match to break out at a political rally.
So your ok with all the different minutes silence we have and the logos (poppy etc)on shirts but not with people taking a few seconds to take a knee?
They’re once a year though not every single week.

Minutes silence and poppies aren’t political either.

Next?

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Wafflebutt » Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:24 pm

Red and White Army wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:11 pm
Wafflebutt wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:51 pm


So your ok with all the different minutes silence we have and the logos (poppy etc)on shirts but not with people taking a few seconds to take a knee?
They’re once a year though not every single week.

Minutes silence and poppies aren’t political either.

Next?
How are poppies not political?
Once a year every week for each thing.

Next?

Wafflebutt
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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Wafflebutt » Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:25 pm

Card Sharp wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:07 pm
Wafflebutt wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:00 pm


Yes if they want to, yes if they want to and im sure that question in itself could be construed as racist.
Are you calling me one? It was a question, not a statement. Please confirm if you are calling me one.

Actually, do not worry, you have not bothered to read my whole thread and my personal experience in this matter.

Did I call you one?

Actually don't worry, if you have not bothered to read the statement...

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Red and White Army » Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:32 pm

Wafflebutt wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:24 pm
Red and White Army wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:11 pm


They’re once a year though not every single week.

Minutes silence and poppies aren’t political either.

Next?
How are poppies not political?
Once a year every week for each thing.

Next?
So every week is the same as every year, good to know.

Poppies are for remembrance of those who died in the war, not to support a political anti police movement who only piped up to support a couple of convicted rapists resisting arrest.

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Wafflebutt » Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:33 pm

Red and White Army wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:32 pm
Wafflebutt wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:24 pm


How are poppies not political?
Once a year every week for each thing.

Next?
So every week is the same as every year, good to know.

Poppies are for remembrance of those who died in the war, not to support a political anti police movement who only piped up to support a couple of convicted rapists resisting arrest.
Oh OK your baiting, I will not bite.

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by PabloInNz » Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:35 pm

Card Sharp wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:40 am
There will always be wrong 'uns in any walk of life, sadly. And the vast majority are brilliant.

The issue is more that it is systemic and institutional. Maybe not as bad as before, but there is no denying it is still prevalent.

Going back to the original point, the taking the knee thing should stop. Much like the clap for carers etc on a Thursday, which trust me I fully supported, but also agreed that it had gone on too long.

All lives matter.
Interesting choice of phrase. I would respectfully suggest that you may be misguided in using that as a finisher after your previous points. This link happens to be aimed at kids, but I'm not suggesting childish thinking, just seems to be a good resource to get a point across https://www.parents.com/kids/responsibi ... r-a-child/

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Card Sharp » Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:48 pm

Maybe Pablo, maybe...this thread has gone way beyond the opening post. I'm passionate as some of my family have been targeted because they are black. It sickens me.

Once more back to the opening post, the taking of the knee at football matches, the longer it continues, the less impact it will have.

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by celtic card » Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:35 am

I don’t know if it makes them racist, but anyone who utters, or agrees with, the term, “all lives matter” is, at best, an ignorant cretin.

A pretty depressing read, this thread. We’re not as far away from the gun-toting, Trump-voting, self-defeating madness of America as we might think we are.

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by SolidBond13 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:09 am

celtic card wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:35 am
I don’t know if it makes them racist, but anyone who utters, or agrees with, the term, “all lives matter” is, at best, an ignorant cretin.

A pretty depressing read, this thread. We’re not as far away from the gun-toting, Trump-voting, self-defeating madness of America as we might think we are.
Absolutely. Well said.

A very depressing, and disappointing read.

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by cardtrick » Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:15 pm

SolidBond13 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:09 am
celtic card wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:35 am
I don’t know if it makes them racist, but anyone who utters, or agrees with, the term, “all lives matter” is, at best, an ignorant cretin.

A pretty depressing read, this thread. We’re not as far away from the gun-toting, Trump-voting, self-defeating madness of America as we might think we are.
Absolutely. Well said.

A very depressing, and disappointing read.
Totally agree - no one shouts when, in response to domestic violence and rape of women that all lives must be protected. In response to child abuse arguments noone answers with everyone must be protected.

It is an absolute GIVEN that all lives matter, it is an absolute GIVEN that sexual abuse is wrong whoever is the victim. It is because all lives don't matter equally that Black Lives matter needs to be said - particularly in the States

So yes black lives do matter - and that is not the same as backing all the views of a particular organisation called Black Lives Matter

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Card Sharp » Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:59 pm

I think what is depressing is the sniping at each other.
Of which most of us have been guilty. It is easy for us to misconstrue a question or a comment. I apologise if I have caused any offence. None has been meant or intended.

From what I gather from this thread, everyone is in agreement is there is an issue that needs to be addressed with racism against black people. I know this personally.

I do not think anyone is suggesting that we should ignore the issue. So much more needs to be done. The opening post, refers for footballers continuing to take a knee. My main issue with it is that the impact is lessening and would hate for that to turn into a negative.

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Ashcard » Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:06 pm

SolidBond13 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:09 am
celtic card wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:35 am
I don’t know if it makes them racist, but anyone who utters, or agrees with, the term, “all lives matter” is, at best, an ignorant cretin.

A pretty depressing read, this thread. We’re not as far away from the gun-toting, Trump-voting, self-defeating madness of America as we might think we are.
Absolutely. Well said.

A very depressing, and disappointing read.
Yes it is a depressing read and is unfortunately indicative of where we are on this as a society.

The ignorance is the problem, there are plenty that just cannot see they are deep down racist without realising it and do not consider themselves as racists, discussion boards are ram packed with that type. There are plenty that just don't care and think its someone else's problem.

To be fair though, the comments on here are fairly mild in comparison to most discussion boards on this subject (take a look at shotsweb for one, they have pretty much the same thread on the go). On a typical board as well as the 'all lives matter' line Most discussion boards you will see the predictable 'i'm not racist, but....' or 'i'm not racist, one of my mates is black'.

I really hope BLM and the anti racist message changes things for the better, i'm sure it will over the long term. What happened to George Floyd was horrendous, i mean absolutely fucking horrendous. People are being persecuted and are dying because of their colour but yet some are not bothered by that, it doesn't affect them of course.

But they will take to the keyboard because their precious viewing of a football match has a 10 second interlude reminding everyone that lives are being lost because of racism. So i say to them GET A GRIP, WAKE UP AND SEE WHAT IS REALLY FUCKING IMPORTANT!

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Cardbourne » Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:22 pm

Ashcard wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:06 pm
SolidBond13 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:09 am


Absolutely. Well said.

A very depressing, and disappointing read.
Yes it is a depressing read and is unfortunately indicative of where we are on this as a society.

The ignorance is the problem, there are plenty that just cannot see they are deep down racist without realising it and do not consider themselves as racists, discussion boards are ram packed with that type. There are plenty that just don't care and think its someone else's problem.

To be fair though, the comments on here are fairly mild in comparison to most discussion boards on this subject (take a look at shotsweb for one, they have pretty much the same thread on the go). On a typical board as well as the 'all lives matter' line Most discussion boards you will see the predictable 'i'm not racist, but....' or 'i'm not racist, one of my mates is black'.

I really hope BLM and the anti racist message changes things for the better, i'm sure it will over the long term. What happened to George Floyd was horrendous, i mean absolutely fucking horrendous. People are being persecuted and are dying because of their colour but yet some are not bothered by that, it doesn't affect them of course.

But they will take to the keyboard because their precious viewing of a football match has a 10 second interlude reminding everyone that lives are being lost because of racism. So i say to them GET A GRIP, WAKE UP AND SEE WHAT IS REALLY FUCKING IMPORTANT!
Obviously what happened to George Floyd was horrible. But where are POC people being persecuted and dying in this country??


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