Tiresome charade.

Sunbrow
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Tiresome charade.

Post by Sunbrow » Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:52 pm

Just taken the knee in the seasons first game so I'll give that a miss. It's now getting ridiculous.

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by cardtrick » Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:04 pm

when you think how they treated Kaepernick its very welcome.

he made a personal choice to kneel and not sing the anthem to make a point and was sacked from his job and vilified. Since then we have had a jogger shot dead in the park and Floyd choked to death on a sidewalk - not to mention the guy shot in the back. Good on them after all thats happened this year

Yes Black Lives Do matter equally alongside every other

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by PabloInNz » Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:51 pm

What is ridiculous ? That people still see the need to make a statement or that the statement still needs to be made repeatedly in this day and age ? That in 2020 it still makes a difference how you are treated by society based on the colour of your skin ?

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Card Sharp » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:05 pm

The repeated nature. It lessens the impact.

No need to continue making this gesture now.

I am part of a mixed race family and now fully well how police in this country single out black people. Not to the extent in USA thankfully, but it is still wrong.

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Spitfire » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:17 pm

Card Sharp wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:05 pm
The repeated nature. It lessens the impact.

No need to continue making this gesture now.

I am part of a mixed race family and now fully well how police in this country single out black people. Not to the extent in USA thankfully, but it is still wrong.
Are you suggesting that the police in this country deliberately go out their way to single out black people? Reads to me you are saying all coppers are racists.

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by PabloInNz » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:21 pm

I didn't read that as saying all coppers are racist. Are you saying all coppers aren't racist , because some certainly are without question, but not all.

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Card Sharp » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:24 pm

Spitfire wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:17 pm
Card Sharp wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:05 pm
The repeated nature. It lessens the impact.

No need to continue making this gesture now.

I am part of a mixed race family and now fully well how police in this country single out black people. Not to the extent in USA thankfully, but it is still wrong.
Are you suggesting that the police in this country deliberately go out their way to single out black people? Reads to me you are saying all coppers are racists.
Not all. No. Should have been clearer and apologies for misleading you.

However, this is supported by facts that proportionally black people are more likely to be pulled over or stopped by the police. It is a systemic thing sadly which my family has experienced for no reason other than colour of skin.

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Card Sharp » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:28 pm

PabloInNz wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:21 pm
I didn't read that as saying all coppers are racist. Are you saying all coppers aren't racist , because some certainly are without question, but not all.
Spitfire has an agenda against me for some unknown reason, twisting things as per.

Not all coppers are racist, the ones I know personally, I am certain are not racist. Otherwise I would not be friends with them.

From my own personal experience with members of my family, people are singled out ahead of their white caucasian friends.

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by PabloInNz » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:32 pm

I've not lived in the uk for 20+ years, so things may have moved on a bit since I was there. Did a bit of googling and found this. I don't know how reputable the site is, but seems persuasive to me

https://www.crimeandjustice.org.uk/publ ... nal-racism

The claim that policing practice in the UK is institutionally racist was widely accepted after the Macpherson Report at the end of last century.

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Spitfire » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:52 pm

Card Sharp wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:28 pm
PabloInNz wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:21 pm
I didn't read that as saying all coppers are racist. Are you saying all coppers aren't racist , because some certainly are without question, but not all.
Spitfire has an agenda against me for some unknown reason, twisting things as per.

Not all coppers are racist, the ones I know personally, I am certain are not racist. Otherwise I would not be friends with them.

From my own personal experience with members of my family, people are singled out ahead of their white caucasian friends.
You got me wrong on this one old chap. No one should expect to be dealt with by anyone purely on their race, colour or creed. That’s totally out of order and can only empathise with your folks. Absolutely genuinely. I was just hoping you clarified as you did as there are a lot of great people in the plod tarred with the same old institutionalised racist brush from 20 odd years ago. Saying there are no wrong uns in the police would be saying there are no birds in the garden. You can’t see them but they are there.

My mate Stephen joined the Met after he left Fullbrook. Still lives locally in Byfleet and if you didn’t know him you would never guess he was one of the riot police types. Soft as a feather and not a malicious bone in his body. More like him please, unless he faces a knife wielding maniac and then he can do as he likes to them.

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Ashcard » Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:50 am

Sunbrow wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:52 pm
Just taken the knee in the seasons first game so I'll give that a miss. It's now getting ridiculous.
What is ridiculous is being more outraged by protests racism than being outraged by actual racism!

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Card Sharp » Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:40 am

There will always be wrong 'uns in any walk of life, sadly. And the vast majority are brilliant.

The issue is more that it is systemic and institutional. Maybe not as bad as before, but there is no denying it is still prevalent.

Going back to the original point, the taking the knee thing should stop. Much like the clap for carers etc on a Thursday, which trust me I fully supported, but also agreed that it had gone on too long.

All lives matter.

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Sunbrow » Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:33 am

Card Sharp wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:40 am
There will always be wrong 'uns in any walk of life, sadly. And the vast majority are brilliant.

The issue is more that it is systemic and institutional. Maybe not as bad as before, but there is no denying it is still prevalent.

Going back to the original point, the taking the knee thing should stop. Much like the clap for carers etc on a Thursday, which trust me I fully supported, but also agreed that it had gone on too long.

All lives matter.
Your point is EXACTLY what I meant in my original post, well said sir.

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by alas Tom Jones » Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:00 am

I imagine that another ritual, the shaking of hands before kick-off, won't be happening for the time being. Perhaps it should be dropped permanently, or happen at full time.

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Ashcard » Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:03 am

Card Sharp wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:40 am
There will always be wrong 'uns in any walk of life, sadly. And the vast majority are brilliant.

The issue is more that it is systemic and institutional. Maybe not as bad as before, but there is no denying it is still prevalent.

Going back to the original point, the taking the knee thing should stop. Much like the clap for carers etc on a Thursday, which trust me I fully supported, but also agreed that it had gone on too long.

All lives matter.
I get what you are saying Card Sharp, But you and Sunbrow kind of inadvertantly show why the BLM message is far far from over.

The taking the knee is no big deal, it is 10 seconds of time. It does not affect the match result or performances, it is there and you can choose to look the other way if you please.

But the point is there are still too many people especially on social media that are annoyed by BLM and protests against racism and feel the need to take to the keyboard to vent about it but yet do not show anywhere near the same verocity of discord to actual acts of racism.

The anti racism campaign still has a long way to go yet unfortunately.

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Card Sharp » Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:50 am

With respect Ashcard, I am not saying it is far from over and I resent your comment. As I have said, I am very close to this subject.

It is starting to feel like a duty, like they are compelled, almost as if it is a publicity stunt now, and I would not begrudge any footballer from refraining. It does not mean they are racist. How long should this taking the knee go on for in your opinion?

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Red and White Army » Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:04 pm

Ah the old “people being against the movement is why we need it” circular argument.

People are annoyed about BLM because it’s a political organisation which wants to defund the police as well as encouraging violence, rioting and the burning down of buildings.

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Ashcard » Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:36 pm

Card sharp, my comment probably came over a bit harsher than i intended. In answer to your question i do not really have an opinion on how long taking to the knee should go on for, the longevity of the action is pretty irrelevent compared to the deadly seriousness of actual racism. Or what it fundamentally has bought to the forefront is subliminal racism. I think there is a very wide spectrum of where every single individual is on a racism scale. Add to that, where an individual would like people to think where they are on the spectrum is not actually where they would really be on it.

RWA, being anti racist does in no way condone anarchy and marxism.

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Red and White Army » Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:49 pm

Ashcard wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:36 pm

RWA, being anti racist does in no way condone anarchy and marxism.
In the same way as refusing to taking a knee in no way condones racism.

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Card Sharp » Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:29 pm

Where are the protests on religious persecution in Africa and the middle and far east? Easy to argue that this is far more severe. Do we ignore it because the media rarely report or we deem these countries to be inferior and less developed?

Agreed, there is probably subliminal discrimination in everybody, not just racism. Look at what many fans chanted against Nikki Bull, and how the wheels of the aldershot's houses go round and round? Hundreds chanted...

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by kansasCard » Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:58 pm

My wife is mixed race. Her father is American. He's a person of color. I live in the US and have seen the riots fist hand just a mile down the road from me. I've seen the Facebook ads encouraging people to support black businesses (and what bollocks that was) And yes my wife and I also own a business. I support the intentions of BLM but not the application. I fully 100% support the police, if i'm in a restaurant, garage, or drive through and a police officer is there I buy their lunch. To me the whole message is wrong, it's provoking the wrong responses. Change starts with the person in the mirror. And I for one will never ever ever take a knee. Fix the message, fix the response.
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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Red and White Army » Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:27 pm

I saw that attacks on police are up by 40% since lockdown. Would argue that BLM and racists such as David Lammy and Dawn Butler are indirectly responsible for the majority of this by stoking the fire.

If anything they’ve set race relations back by about 50 years by trying to segregate everything by race: “support black business” being a prime example.

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Cardinal96 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:37 pm

Red and White Army wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:27 pm
I saw that attacks on police are up by 40% since lockdown. Would argue that BLM and racists such as David Lammy and Dawn Butler are indirectly responsible for the majority of this by stoking the fire.

If anything they’ve set race relations back by about 50 years by trying to segregate everything by race: “support black business” being a prime example.
David Lammy and Dawn Buttler arent 'stoking the fire', they're raising the alarm. If the disgusting emails some MPs receive isn't proof that racism in this country is still rife then I don't know what is.

Its so easy for white people such as myself to live our lives and 'not see race', and criticise black people when they bring it up. But that's because we don't have to worry about race. Black people are far more likely to be stopped and searched than white people in the uk. Black people are less likely to own their own home, less likely to attend the best schools, more likely to be unemployed.

People marching through London or taking the knee don't all want to defund the police (which, by the way, doesn't mean abolish). They just want something to change, something needs to change, and so far nothing has. I don't blame anyone who continues to protest, or displays their anger in other ways, because the message still isn't being heard.

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Cardbourne » Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:11 pm

Cardinal96 wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:37 pm
Red and White Army wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:27 pm
I saw that attacks on police are up by 40% since lockdown. Would argue that BLM and racists such as David Lammy and Dawn Butler are indirectly responsible for the majority of this by stoking the fire.

If anything they’ve set race relations back by about 50 years by trying to segregate everything by race: “support black business” being a prime example.
David Lammy and Dawn Buttler arent 'stoking the fire', they're raising the alarm. If the disgusting emails some MPs receive isn't proof that racism in this country is still rife then I don't know what is.

Its so easy for white people such as myself to live our lives and 'not see race', and criticise black people when they bring it up. But that's because we don't have to worry about race. Black people are far more likely to be stopped and searched than white people in the uk. Black people are less likely to own their own home, less likely to attend the best schools, more likely to be unemployed.

People marching through London or taking the knee don't all want to defund the police (which, by the way, doesn't mean abolish). They just want something to change, something needs to change, and so far nothing has. I don't blame anyone who continues to protest, or displays their anger in other ways, because the message still isn't being heard.

I'm not sure how being Black stops people from owning a home??

I don't mind anyone protesting peacefully, but some of the hypocrisy I've seen with my eyes from 'BLM supporters' is painful

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Re: Tiresome charade.

Post by Card Sharp » Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:20 pm

No one is disputing that there needs to be change.

From a personal point of view, overpaid footballers taking a knee continually at the start of a game is having less and less impact. When will it stop? When racism ends?


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