Euros

Red and White Army
Posts: 2701
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:53 pm
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: Euros

Post by Red and White Army » Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:58 pm

Kanu's Nan wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:54 am
Red and White Army wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:24 am


Indeed we haven’t qualified yet. But we’ve beaten the strongest team in the group and need 1 point from Scotland and Czech Rep at home to go through.

I know Scotland typically ‘raise their game’ but they probably only have one player (Robertson) who would get in the England squad of 26.

But I agree a draw wouldn’t actually be a harmful result.

It’s potentially playing Portugal/France/Germany in the last 16 which is worrying... even with home advantage.
I really don't want to turn this into the inevitable willy waving row but Robertson and Tierney would both waltz into the left-back role considering your best one is a right back.
Except no-one apart from maybe Southgate really thinks Trippier is our best LB.

Tierney never really impressed me that much when playing for Arsenal. Certainly not more so than Chilwell (a CL winning LB) or Shaw.

James Wade
Posts: 529
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:32 pm
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Euros

Post by James Wade » Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:23 pm

I would have Robertson over Chilwell or Shaw everytime.
Disclaimer:
"Just to be clear, I was born in Aldershot but that was the fault of my parents, so don't hold it against me"

Red and White Army
Posts: 2701
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:53 pm
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: Euros

Post by Red and White Army » Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:42 pm

James Wade wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:23 pm
I would have Robertson over Chilwell or Shaw everytime.
So would I. I've always thought Roberton was actually a better full back than Alexander-Arnold too.

Just not Tierney.

JAM
Posts: 1827
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:01 am
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Euros

Post by JAM » Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:45 pm

Robertson is the best LB in the PL, and probably the best FB.

Tierney is as good as Shaw and Chilwell

celtic card
Posts: 491
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:26 pm
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 28 times

Re: Euros

Post by celtic card » Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:47 pm

Tierney > Robertson

Scotland have two of the best four or five left backs in the world right now. Tierney’s performed consistently well, in an often poor Arsenal team. Only injuries can stop him going to the very top, and unfortunately he seems to have become a bit injury-prone at Arsenal.

Wafflebutt
Posts: 845
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:54 pm
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: Euros

Post by Wafflebutt » Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:12 pm

celtic card wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:47 pm
Tierney > Robertson

Scotland have two of the best four or five left backs in the world right now. Tierney’s performed consistently well, in an often poor Arsenal team. Only injuries can stop him going to the very top, and unfortunately he seems to have become a bit injury-prone at Arsenal.
https://www.footballcritic.com/top-players/backs
Not even top 10 I'm afraid.

celtic card
Posts: 491
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:26 pm
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 28 times

Re: Euros

Post by celtic card » Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:44 pm

Wafflebutt wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:12 pm
celtic card wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:47 pm
Tierney > Robertson

Scotland have two of the best four or five left backs in the world right now. Tierney’s performed consistently well, in an often poor Arsenal team. Only injuries can stop him going to the very top, and unfortunately he seems to have become a bit injury-prone at Arsenal.
https://www.footballcritic.com/top-players/backs
Not even top 10 I'm afraid.
Ah shit, despite KN’s warning, I’ve helped to turn this into willy waving, haven’t I?

That list includes right backs, and presumably is based on statistics, which don’t really mean anything. Of the left backs above Robertson on that list, I’d take peak Jordi Alba (who’s past his peak now) but that’s about it.

To be honest, I haven’t seen enough of most of them to really get away with sweeping statements like the one above. I’m just a proud Scot with a man-crush on Kieran Tierney. We don’t get players of that quality too often, so I’ll extol their virtues whenever I can!

Red and White Army
Posts: 2701
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:53 pm
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: Euros

Post by Red and White Army » Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:43 pm

To be fair a world class LB will only get you so far when you have Lyndon Dykes up front. With their squad it’s a decent achievement just to get to the Euros.

On a separate note, does anyone else hate the 24 team format? Unbalanced groups with a lot of ‘dead’ games due to half the 3rd placed teams going through.

Either go back to 16 teams (preferred) or expand it further to 32 teams.

JAM
Posts: 1827
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:01 am
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Euros

Post by JAM » Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:40 am

24 teams to play lots of games to get rid of 6 is mad. However, if it goes to 32 teams, thats another 8 teams that really arent good enough that will qualify

take it back down to 16 and be done with it

AshWFC
Posts: 445
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:59 pm
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Euros

Post by AshWFC » Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:45 am

Having always been against it I actually like that there's more teams but I agree... I'd be OK if it was 2 teams going through in 3rd but it's overkill to play this many games with so few teams going out.

Red and White Army
Posts: 2701
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:53 pm
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: Euros

Post by Red and White Army » Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:49 am

Just wait until the 2026 World Cup goes to 48 teams with:

- 16 groups of 3 teams
- Top 2 from each group go to a knockout round of 32

Fucking terrible idea.

JAM
Posts: 1827
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:01 am
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Euros

Post by JAM » Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:01 am

There wont be any need for qualification soon. 48 teams, thats ridiculous

In saying that, I have seem that the teams that make the final will still only play 7 games, which is the same as now, and the tournament will not be on any longer as now.

oakie
Posts: 516
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:47 am
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 59 times

Re: Euros

Post by oakie » Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:40 am

Ever increasing expansion of teams dilutes the concept of a Finals tournament - Euro or WC

I remember the eight team Euro final competitions of the 80's with two groups of 4, group winners play in the final as being brutally competitive because of the limited numbers.

16 teams is probably the right number for Euro finals and is consistent with the number of European qualification slots for each World Cup finals competition but if you scale back the WC you should reduce accordingly Euro too.

Euros having 24 teams now (or 32 in the future) is bonkers - there are only 55 UEFA member countries in the first place!

Qualification process becomes a nonsense with that many places in the finals available, you'd spend a year playing meaningless games to establish that only San Marino, Gibraltar and Scotland should be eliminated!

AshWFC
Posts: 445
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:59 pm
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Euros

Post by AshWFC » Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:02 am

I don't know why a Round of 32 should be required at the World Cup... if they wanted to expand and achieve the ultimate goal (more games equalling more revenue) the best thing to do is to move to an 8 groups of 5 teams format, with the top two qualifying.

JAM
Posts: 1827
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:01 am
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Euros

Post by JAM » Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:13 am

only problem with that idea would be lots more dead games at the end of the group stages, which at least the groups of 3 eliminate

AshWFC
Posts: 445
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:59 pm
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Euros

Post by AshWFC » Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:33 am

You mean like how any game in the final round of group fixtures in these Euros between teams that have a win and a draw (or better) is too?

The only way to get away from that is to basically do away with groups entirely, or introducing byes and maintaining a similarly large number of teams going through. I don't think either of those options is great either.

JAM
Posts: 1827
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:01 am
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Euros

Post by JAM » Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:38 am

it seems that the less teams there are in a group, the more chance that there will be dead games at the end of the group.

8 groups of 5 could mean that there could be a game at the end of each group where a match would mean nothing towards qualification

also not sure how odd numbers would work with regards to possibly fixing games, as 1 team wont play in the last round of fixtures, so not sure groups of 3 work either

Cardinal96
Posts: 981
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:01 pm
Has thanked: 104 times
Been thanked: 35 times

Re: Euros

Post by Cardinal96 » Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:20 pm

Seems very unfair that if we win our group, we will play the second-placed side out of France, Portugal and Germany, but if we finish second in our group we play the second-placed out of Spain, Slovakia and Sweden. I wouldn't fancy us even at home vs Germany or Portugal, I'd prefer to play Sweden or Slovakia in Copenhagen.

If we were to finish 3rd, we would most likely play the winner of group C (likely Holland, Austria or Ukraine).

Winning our group is almost the worst case scenario- maybe Croatia knew that!

JAM
Posts: 1827
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:01 am
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Euros

Post by JAM » Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:31 pm

another problem of having 6 groups. Its only fair that the winners of the group play a 2nd/3rd place side in the next round, but as there are 8 games in the next section, they had to find 2 2nd place teams to also play further 2nd/3rs place teams

Problem with finishing 2nd in the group and get the R-up of group containing Spain is that in the QFs we will likely play France. Whilst finishing top of the group leaves a potentially tricky last 16 game, it is slightly easier to go further via that route. Thats why I stated in the opening post on this thread that getting to the SFs would have exceeded expectations imo

celtic card
Posts: 491
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:26 pm
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 28 times

Re: Euros

Post by celtic card » Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:44 pm

Cardinal96 wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:20 pm
Seems very unfair that if we win our group, we will play the second-placed side out of France, Portugal and Germany, but if we finish second in our group we play the second-placed out of Spain, Slovakia and Sweden. I wouldn't fancy us even at home vs Germany or Portugal, I'd prefer to play Sweden or Slovakia in Copenhagen.

If we were to finish 3rd, we would most likely play the winner of group C (likely Holland, Austria or Ukraine).

Winning our group is almost the worst case scenario- maybe Croatia knew that!
As I said earlier in the thread, it’s definitely in your best interests to lose on Friday...

Red and White Army
Posts: 2701
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:53 pm
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: Euros

Post by Red and White Army » Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:16 pm

celtic card wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:44 pm
Cardinal96 wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:20 pm
Seems very unfair that if we win our group, we will play the second-placed side out of France, Portugal and Germany, but if we finish second in our group we play the second-placed out of Spain, Slovakia and Sweden. I wouldn't fancy us even at home vs Germany or Portugal, I'd prefer to play Sweden or Slovakia in Copenhagen.

If we were to finish 3rd, we would most likely play the winner of group C (likely Holland, Austria or Ukraine).

Winning our group is almost the worst case scenario- maybe Croatia knew that!
As I said earlier in the thread, it’s definitely in your best interests to lose on Friday...
I've heard that was the reason for Scotland's tactical defeat vs the Czechs. David Marshall knew what he was doing :)

celtic card
Posts: 491
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:26 pm
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 28 times

Re: Euros

Post by celtic card » Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:11 pm

I’ll take that. Was critical of O’Donnell in the last match. He was MOTM for me. Hanley also excellent. Adams too. England poor. Not sure if that was because we were better than Croatia (hope so!) or just an off night for England. Don’t care. Loved the line-up. Loved the performance. England almost certainly through, and we get our final on Tuesday. :)

Kingfield Ender
Posts: 6004
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:48 am
Has thanked: 423 times
Been thanked: 350 times

Re: Euros

Post by Kingfield Ender » Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:44 pm

As I said earlier in the thread, Scotland was always going to be our toughest game, and so it proved.

Watch us roll the Czechs over while Scotland go out in the 93rd minute
Still Plugging away in the absence of the great one

Bobbo
Posts: 1356
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:00 pm
Location: Rome "Caput Mundi", somewhere in Italy ;)
Has thanked: 224 times
Been thanked: 26 times

Re: Euros

Post by Bobbo » Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:34 am

I understand you can’t stand the Scots, but I wish them to go forth as well for England. Good luck both of “you”.
Scotland played a superb match.
80)

Quod non necat emunit.

Red and White Army
Posts: 2701
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:53 pm
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: Euros

Post by Red and White Army » Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:23 am

I love the knee jerk reactions in the papers/social media after England matches.

When we beat Croatia we were world class with Kalvin Phillips the best midfielder in the history of football.

We draw with Scotland and suddenly we’re terrible, Southgate should be sacked and Kane is shit.

Makes this forum look measured.


Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: oakie, sicknote snr, Wbewsey and 31 guests

Cardboard

Cardsboard.co.uk is not an official message board of Woking Football Club or The Cards Trust, the opinions expressed are those of the individual authors. If you see an offensive post then click "Report" on the relevant post. Posts will be deleted at the discretion of the moderators whose decision is final. Please be warned that some posts will contain swear words.

Vanarama National League Club Forums: Aldershot Town | Altrincham | Barnet | Bromley | Chesterfield | Dagenham & Redbridge | Dover Athletic | Eastleigh | FC Halifax Town | Hartlepool United | King's Lynn Town | Maidenhead United | Notts County | Solihull Moors | Stockport County | Sutton United | Torquay United | Wealdstone | Weymouth | Wrexham

Unofficial League Forums: The Conference Forum

Other Links: Cards Trust - Boost the Budget | wokingfc.co.uk | Surrey Advertiser | Woking News and Mail | Woking FC Official Photo Gallery | BBC Sport - Woking | BBC Football Commentaries