Euros

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Re: Euros

Post by Wafflebutt » Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:31 pm

1 - 0 pretty good start to the tournament imo.

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Re: Euros

Post by celtic card » Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:21 pm

From a Scotsman, I thought that was pretty impressive from England today. Croatia look a little past their best, but England were good. Gotta say, Southgate got his team selection and tactics spot on, despite all the raised eyebrows pre-match.

Phillips, Mount and Sterling were excellent. Only Kane seemed to be below par. But he's Harry Kane, so I wouldn't worry too much.

I have mixed feelings. I'm less worried about Croatia, but more worried about England...

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Re: Euros

Post by cardtrick » Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:27 pm

Phillips (especially) and Mount were excellent throughout, Foden started really well but saw little of the ball later on

Walker was a liability in giving away possession. Sterling was actually pretty poor until he scored. I still think Mings is a Joey Jones style mistake waiting to happen but today he was ok

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Re: Euros

Post by KT15 Card » Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:11 pm

cardtrick wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:27 pm
Phillips (especially) and Mount were excellent throughout, Foden started really well but saw little of the ball later on

Walker was a liability in giving away possession. Sterling was actually pretty poor until he scored. I still think Mings is a Joey Jones style mistake waiting to happen but today he was ok
Centre midfield similar to Woking this season is where I was worried, but if anything they proved everyone wrong. Really solid today.

2018 was horrific getting knocked out by them. What a great way to make up for it.

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Re: Euros

Post by JAM » Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:31 am

without wanting to go overboard, yesterday was a decent, solid performance. We will certainly have tougher tests than that further into the tournament, as Croatia werent the same side that beat us 3 years ago.

I wasnt convinced on the starting XI (no recognised LB playing when there are 2 (3 if you include Saka) in the squad), and wasnt sure that Sterling should have started, thought TBF I wasnt aware of his excellent record in an England shirt since the last WC. For me, the only poor performer on the day was Walker, and I would move Tripper to RB and play a recognised LB for the Scotland game

as I said decent start, always good to get a win 1st up, and a clean sheet to boot

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Re: Euros

Post by Red and White Army » Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:52 pm

JAM wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:31 am
without wanting to go overboard, yesterday was a decent, solid performance. We will certainly have tougher tests than that further into the tournament, as Croatia werent the same side that beat us 3 years ago.

I wasnt convinced on the starting XI (no recognised LB playing when there are 2 (3 if you include Saka) in the squad), and wasnt sure that Sterling should have started, thought TBF I wasnt aware of his excellent record in an England shirt since the last WC. For me, the only poor performer on the day was Walker, and I would move Tripper to RB and play a recognised LB for the Scotland game

as I said decent start, always good to get a win 1st up, and a clean sheet to boot
Did seem a bit strange when you have two very good LBs that you end up playing a RB there. I expect James/Shaw will come in for Walker/Trippier for the Scotland game.

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Re: Euros

Post by Texas Dave » Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:00 pm

It is always important to get off to a winning start and so happy with that much bigger challenges await no doubt. Hopefully we will Grealish sooner rather than later, he wins so many free kicks and this could be very important. Scotland appeared to be a little overawed and I am sure they can do better and they definitely have a chance against Croatia who are certainly ageing and no longer the force they were but they need to believe in themselves.
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Re: Euros

Post by celtic card » Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:43 pm

We were poor today. Disappointing. I was kinda gutted when I saw the line up. Felt beaten before we’d started. Tierney’s a huge miss. If he’s not back for Friday, it’s game over. Che Adams was excellent when he came on and should’ve started. Very defensive line-up for a very winnable game.

McTominay, as he often is for Scotland, was anonymous. Felt sorry for Calum McGregor. He should be in ahead of McTominay, but he doesn’t play for Man Utd so that will never happen. McGinn had an off day. Armstrong did ok, but doesn’t offer enough defensively. It’s criminal that with so many decent midfielders we couldn’t get a hold of the ball in midfield. Robertson was good. O’Donnell looked hopelessly out of his depth. The back three were ok. Cooper the best of them, which is ironic cos he wouldn’t have started if Tierney was fit.

I’m not gonna criticise Steve Clarke too much. He got us to a finals which many before him haven’t managed. But I think he might be a bit too loyal to the players who got us there. I really hope he shakes things up for the England game or it could be ugly. Forrest for O’Donnell, Adams for Christie, McGregor for McTominay, and Gilmour for Armstrong, please.

All that said, two great goals from a 40m striker were the difference. We don’t have that.

England have absolutely nothing to worry about in this group, by the way. Probably the easiest group, based on what I’ve seen so far. However, the group winner has to play someone from the group of death. So a tactical defeat to Scotland would be in your best interests. Just saying... ;)

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Re: Euros

Post by Adrian » Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:03 pm

celtic card wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:43 pm
We were poor today. Disappointing. I was kinda gutted when I saw the line up. Felt beaten before we’d started. Tierney’s a huge miss. If he’s not back for Friday, it’s game over. Che Adams was excellent when he came on and should’ve started. Very defensive line-up for a very winnable game.

McTominay, as he often is for Scotland, was anonymous. Felt sorry for Calum McGregor. He should be in ahead of McTominay, but he doesn’t play for Man Utd so that will never happen. McGinn had an off day. Armstrong did ok, but doesn’t offer enough defensively. It’s criminal that with so many decent midfielders we couldn’t get a hold of the ball in midfield. Robertson was good. O’Donnell looked hopelessly out of his depth. The back three were ok. Cooper the best of them, which is ironic cos he wouldn’t have started if Tierney was fit.

I’m not gonna criticise Steve Clarke too much. He got us to a finals which many before him haven’t managed. But I think he might be a bit too loyal to the players who got us there. I really hope he shakes things up for the England game or it could be ugly. Forrest for O’Donnell, Adams for Christie, McGregor for McTominay, and Gilmour for Armstrong, please.

All that said, two great goals from a 40m striker were the difference. We don’t have that.

England have absolutely nothing to worry about in this group, by the way. Probably the easiest group, based on what I’ve seen so far. However, the group winner has to play someone from the group of death. So a tactical defeat to Scotland would be in your best interests. Just saying... ;)

I think you underestimate the attitude of Scotland players when given an opportunity to play their Cup Final at Wembley.
Looking forward to see everyone again at Kingfield, soon.
Some interesting conversations will be had.

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Re: Euros

Post by AshWFC » Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:09 pm

Celtic card is spot on, and we'll have to have a poor day not to best the Scots.

Che Adams not starting was absolutely ridiculous.

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Re: Euros

Post by celtic card » Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:25 pm

Adrian wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:03 pm
I think you underestimate the attitude of Scotland players when given an opportunity to play their Cup Final at Wembley.
I dunno. Passion/desire will only get you so far. England, unusually, are showing a lot of faith in exciting young players. I don’t think we’ll be able to live with that. Mount and Phillips are as good as anything I’ve seen in the tournament so far. I’m terrified about seeing them go up against the likes of O’Donnell and Hendry. We’ve just been beaten fairly comfortably by a bang average Czech side. Not holding out much hope for Friday. Hope I’m wrong!

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Re: Euros

Post by Adrian » Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:13 am

celtic card wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:25 pm
Adrian wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:03 pm
I think you underestimate the attitude of Scotland players when given an opportunity to play their Cup Final at Wembley.
I dunno. Passion/desire will only get you so far. England, unusually, are showing a lot of faith in exciting young players. I don’t think we’ll be able to live with that. Mount and Phillips are as good as anything I’ve seen in the tournament so far. I’m terrified about seeing them go up against the likes of O’Donnell and Hendry. We’ve just been beaten fairly comfortably by a bang average Czech side. Not holding out much hope for Friday. Hope I’m wrong!
I admire your honesty, but I’ll hope you’re right.
Defeat by Scotland is the worst thing an Englishman can take!!!
Looking forward to see everyone again at Kingfield, soon.
Some interesting conversations will be had.

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Re: Euros

Post by Kanu's Nan » Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:54 am

celtic card wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:43 pm
We were poor today. Disappointing. I was kinda gutted when I saw the line up. Felt beaten before we’d started. Tierney’s a huge miss. If he’s not back for Friday, it’s game over. Che Adams was excellent when he came on and should’ve started. Very defensive line-up for a very winnable game.

McTominay, as he often is for Scotland, was anonymous. Felt sorry for Calum McGregor. He should be in ahead of McTominay, but he doesn’t play for Man Utd so that will never happen. McGinn had an off day. Armstrong did ok, but doesn’t offer enough defensively. It’s criminal that with so many decent midfielders we couldn’t get a hold of the ball in midfield. Robertson was good. O’Donnell looked hopelessly out of his depth. The back three were ok. Cooper the best of them, which is ironic cos he wouldn’t have started if Tierney was fit.

I’m not gonna criticise Steve Clarke too much. He got us to a finals which many before him haven’t managed. But I think he might be a bit too loyal to the players who got us there. I really hope he shakes things up for the England game or it could be ugly. Forrest for O’Donnell, Adams for Christie, McGregor for McTominay, and Gilmour for Armstrong, please.

All that said, two great goals from a 40m striker were the difference. We don’t have that.

England have absolutely nothing to worry about in this group, by the way. Probably the easiest group, based on what I’ve seen so far. However, the group winner has to play someone from the group of death. So a tactical defeat to Scotland would be in your best interests. Just saying... ;)
I think you're being a smidge harsh, maybe it's the disappointment. Which I understand. I agree with you Che McAdams should have started however Christie looked quite lively and I've no doubt would have stayed on had it been 0-0 at HT. He set up the Robertson chance and had he not been tackled by O'Donnell when he sent two Czech defenders for a burger then who knows. McTominay was better than that IMO, when McGregor came on the ball went backwards too much, that's your partisan side taking over :-) O'Donnell is comically out of his depth. McGinn had an off day and that was the one thing we couldn't afford, we needed him to have a game like Robertson's first half. I thought Armstrong looked bright for the first half hour then completely faded.

Ultimately though here's the thing. The Czech's don't play that much differently to Israel or Serbia. They're tidy in possession, they're good at keeping their shape. The difference is that they have a £40m striker to actually punish mistakes, which ultimately is the difference between silly Nations League games and the big boys at the finals. I feel so sorry for Marshall. He saved the penalty to get us here, he made a good save at 0-0 and two good saves at 1-0, but he's an internet photoshop sensation for inexplicably being 40yds off his line when the ball was 30yds from the Czech goal. It's an unbelievable finish, but it was so avoidable.
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Re: Euros

Post by Kingfield Ender » Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:14 am

Am I the only one wary of Scotland this friday ?, they were actually a bit unlucky yesterday and had that shot not rebounded so high up the pitch leading to the second goal it may have been a different story, lets not forget the Czech keeper made some important stops too

They'll certainly be pumped up more than ever on friday and England will have to play well to put them away as they have nothing to lose now. I said to McKN before the tournament I thought Scotland was out hardest group game and I still think it is. They will make it rough and tough and look to stop us getting a head of steam up

I'm going for 1-1 and then we'll smash the Czechs
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Re: Euros

Post by JAM » Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:37 am

No your not, I am also worried

We all know that the Scottish players will play as though they are Messi, Ronaldo etc, and will make it very difficult for us. They have some very good players, some that wouldnt look out of place in the England squad (Tierney, Robertson, McGinn for example) and are a hard working side

as has been said above, the 1 thing they do lack is a striker that is going to score the half chances that they may get. A better striker would have scored the Dykes chance at 2-0 and made the game interesting.

I still expect us to qualify, maybe Friday or if not next Tuesday, but I expect Friday to be a tough game

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Re: Euros

Post by Nonsense Potter » Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:47 am

Kingfield Ender wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:14 am
Am I the only one wary of Scotland this friday ?, they were actually a bit unlucky yesterday and had that shot not rebounded so high up the pitch leading to the second goal it may have been a different story, lets not forget the Czech keeper made some important stops too

They'll certainly be pumped up more than ever on friday and England will have to play well to put them away as they have nothing to lose now. I said to McKN before the tournament I thought Scotland was out hardest group game and I still think it is. They will make it rough and tough and look to stop us getting a head of steam up

I'm going for 1-1 and then we'll smash the Czechs
The way people have reacted to Sunday’s game, I really do worry. We beat an old, tired and limited Croatia, who aren’t close to how good they were in 2018. We were quite controlled, but nowhere near as good as some are making out. WE HAVEN’T QUALIFIED YET!

If the attitude amongst the England squad is right, we should have the quality to win - but I suspect it’s going to be a lot tougher than the respective FIFA rankings would imply. I’d settle for a draw. It means we wouldn’t be damaged by the loss at home, but could be the wake up call required to get us through the last group game.
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Re: Euros

Post by celtic card » Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:01 am

Kanu's Nan wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:54 am
I think you're being a smidge harsh, maybe it's the disappointment. Which I understand. I agree with you Che McAdams should have started however Christie looked quite lively and I've no doubt would have stayed on had it been 0-0 at HT. He set up the Robertson chance and had he not been tackled by O'Donnell when he sent two Czech defenders for a burger then who knows. McTominay was better than that IMO, when McGregor came on the ball went backwards too much, that's your partisan side taking over :-) O'Donnell is comically out of his depth. McGinn had an off day and that was the one thing we couldn't afford, we needed him to have a game like Robertson's first half. I thought Armstrong looked bright for the first half hour then completely faded.

Ultimately though here's the thing. The Czech's don't play that much differently to Israel or Serbia. They're tidy in possession, they're good at keeping their shape. The difference is that they have a £40m striker to actually punish mistakes, which ultimately is the difference between silly Nations League games and the big boys at the finals. I feel so sorry for Marshall. He saved the penalty to get us here, he made a good save at 0-0 and two good saves at 1-0, but he's an internet photoshop sensation for inexplicably being 40yds off his line when the ball was 30yds from the Czech goal. It's an unbelievable finish, but it was so avoidable.
On reflection I was being a bit harsh, yes. I was disappointed with the fact that we didn’t have any kind of control in midfield. That’s McTominay’s job. I barely saw him in the match. Armstrong was ok, but he’s a bit of a luxury player. I feel we lose a bit of control in midfield when he plays. Different story in a 4-4-2. But we don’t play 4-4-2. There were far too many hoofed balls up to Dykes. It was really ineffective. But what choice did the centre backs have? It wasn’t sticking in midfield, which is a real shame with the quality that we have there.

I agree with you, Christie did ok. But he shouldn’t have started. I actually didn’t have McGregor in my starting line-up either. But I didn’t see anything from McTominay yesterday to suggest he’s better than McGregor. And I haven’t yet, in a Scotland shirt. Is it too late to draft Scott Brown in? ;)

All that said, it took two 40m finishes to beat us. We did have a lot of chances. We’re not a million miles away but we’ve got to start both Adams and Dykes, for me. Not sure what we do at right wing-back. No-one in the squad will handle Mount, if he plays like he did the other day. I’d start Forrest. Hugely underrated player, who will at least give us something going forward.

I’d also stick with Marshall. Had a decent game, other than the 2nd goal. Will never know what the hell he was doing at the centre circle. Should our coaching team have clocked that and told him to get back? According to Shick, he’d noticed it first half and was waiting for a chance to try it.

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Re: Euros

Post by Kanu's Nan » Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:07 am

celtic card wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:01 am
Kanu's Nan wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:54 am
I think you're being a smidge harsh, maybe it's the disappointment. Which I understand. I agree with you Che McAdams should have started however Christie looked quite lively and I've no doubt would have stayed on had it been 0-0 at HT. He set up the Robertson chance and had he not been tackled by O'Donnell when he sent two Czech defenders for a burger then who knows. McTominay was better than that IMO, when McGregor came on the ball went backwards too much, that's your partisan side taking over :-) O'Donnell is comically out of his depth. McGinn had an off day and that was the one thing we couldn't afford, we needed him to have a game like Robertson's first half. I thought Armstrong looked bright for the first half hour then completely faded.

Ultimately though here's the thing. The Czech's don't play that much differently to Israel or Serbia. They're tidy in possession, they're good at keeping their shape. The difference is that they have a £40m striker to actually punish mistakes, which ultimately is the difference between silly Nations League games and the big boys at the finals. I feel so sorry for Marshall. He saved the penalty to get us here, he made a good save at 0-0 and two good saves at 1-0, but he's an internet photoshop sensation for inexplicably being 40yds off his line when the ball was 30yds from the Czech goal. It's an unbelievable finish, but it was so avoidable.
On reflection I was being a bit harsh, yes. I was disappointed with the fact that we didn’t have any kind of control in midfield. That’s McTominay’s job. I barely saw him in the match. Armstrong was ok, but he’s a bit of a luxury player. I feel we lose a bit of control in midfield when he plays. Different story in a 4-4-2. But we don’t play 4-4-2. There were far too many hoofed balls up to Dykes. It was really ineffective. But what choice did the centre backs have? It wasn’t sticking in midfield, which is a real shame with the quality that we have there.

I agree with you, Christie did ok. But he shouldn’t have started. I actually didn’t have McGregor in my starting line-up either. But I didn’t see anything from McTominay yesterday to suggest he’s better than McGregor. And I haven’t yet, in a Scotland shirt. Is it too late to draft Scott Brown in? ;)

All that said, it took two 40m finishes to beat us. We did have a lot of chances. We’re not a million miles away but we’ve got to start both Adams and Dykes, for me. Not sure what we do at right wing-back. No-one in the squad will handle Mount, if he plays like he did the other day. I’d start Forrest. Hugely underrated player, who will at least give us something going forward.

I’d also stick with Marshall. Had a decent game, other than the 2nd goal. Will never know what the hell he was doing at the centre circle. Should our coaching team have clocked that and told him to get back? According to Shick, he’d noticed it first half and was waiting for a chance to try it.
Scott Brown chasing shadows at Wembley in 2016 when he came out of retirement is amongst the most 'past his best' situations I've ever seen. Another involved his predecessor, I was at a game once watching Neil Lennon chasing Andriy Shevchenko. My word.
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Re: Euros

Post by celtic card » Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:10 am

JAM wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:37 am
We all know that the Scottish players will play as though they are Messi, Ronaldo etc, and will make it very difficult for us.
You hear this all the time (it’s Scotland’s cup final etc). I never really buy into that. You’re not telling me they’ll be more motivated for England than they were yesterday. Apart from anything else, a fair chunk of the squad is English! Back in the days of Souness et al, maybe, just maybe, the auld enemy factor was a thing. But I don’t think it is now. Serbia was our cup final.

I’m hoping for a better line-up and a positive result on Friday. But this is the least confident I’ve ever been going into a Scotland-England game. I can see the likes of Mount and Foden giving our back line a torrid time.

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Re: Euros

Post by celtic card » Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:15 am

Kanu's Nan wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:07 am
Scott Brown chasing shadows at Wembley in 2016 when he came out of retirement is amongst the most 'past his best' situations I've ever seen. Another involved his predecessor, I was at a game once watching Neil Lennon chasing Andriy Shevchenko. My word.
Past his best in 2016? He was lucky to win those four trebles in a row then! ;) Pretty sure the whole Scotland team were chasing shadows that day.

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Re: Euros

Post by AshWFC » Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:20 am

Robertson, Tierney, and (possibly) McTominay aside, Scotland really have no talent that would get close to the England squad. And only McGinn can really be considered a match-winner in any form.

I could understand a hesitancy if it were England's first game of the tournament, but with a win under their belt there's little fear to play with. A draw sees us through.

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Re: Euros

Post by Red and White Army » Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:24 am

Nonsense Potter wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:47 am
Kingfield Ender wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:14 am
Am I the only one wary of Scotland this friday ?, they were actually a bit unlucky yesterday and had that shot not rebounded so high up the pitch leading to the second goal it may have been a different story, lets not forget the Czech keeper made some important stops too

They'll certainly be pumped up more than ever on friday and England will have to play well to put them away as they have nothing to lose now. I said to McKN before the tournament I thought Scotland was out hardest group game and I still think it is. They will make it rough and tough and look to stop us getting a head of steam up

I'm going for 1-1 and then we'll smash the Czechs
The way people have reacted to Sunday’s game, I really do worry. We beat an old, tired and limited Croatia, who aren’t close to how good they were in 2018. We were quite controlled, but nowhere near as good as some are making out. WE HAVEN’T QUALIFIED YET!

If the attitude amongst the England squad is right, we should have the quality to win - but I suspect it’s going to be a lot tougher than the respective FIFA rankings would imply. I’d settle for a draw. It means we wouldn’t be damaged by the loss at home, but could be the wake up call required to get us through the last group game.
Indeed we haven’t qualified yet. But we’ve beaten the strongest team in the group and need 1 point from Scotland and Czech Rep at home to go through.

I know Scotland typically ‘raise their game’ but they probably only have one player (Robertson) who would get in the England squad of 26.

But I agree a draw wouldn’t actually be a harmful result.

It’s potentially playing Portugal/France/Germany in the last 16 which is worrying... even with home advantage.

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Re: Euros

Post by JAM » Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:38 am

At some stage we are going to play a top side, and for me Belgium and France are the favourites, with Italy up there as well

If we finish 2nd in the group and win the last 16 game, we are more than likely to get France in the QFs. However, if we finish top of the group and get to play whoever finishes 2nd in the 'group of death', if we win that we are more than likely to get Spain or whoever finishes top of that group in the QFs, which to me seems easier.

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Re: Euros

Post by Kanu's Nan » Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:54 am

Red and White Army wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:24 am
Nonsense Potter wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:47 am


The way people have reacted to Sunday’s game, I really do worry. We beat an old, tired and limited Croatia, who aren’t close to how good they were in 2018. We were quite controlled, but nowhere near as good as some are making out. WE HAVEN’T QUALIFIED YET!

If the attitude amongst the England squad is right, we should have the quality to win - but I suspect it’s going to be a lot tougher than the respective FIFA rankings would imply. I’d settle for a draw. It means we wouldn’t be damaged by the loss at home, but could be the wake up call required to get us through the last group game.
Indeed we haven’t qualified yet. But we’ve beaten the strongest team in the group and need 1 point from Scotland and Czech Rep at home to go through.

I know Scotland typically ‘raise their game’ but they probably only have one player (Robertson) who would get in the England squad of 26.

But I agree a draw wouldn’t actually be a harmful result.

It’s potentially playing Portugal/France/Germany in the last 16 which is worrying... even with home advantage.
I really don't want to turn this into the inevitable willy waving row but Robertson and Tierney would both waltz into the left-back role considering your best one is a right back.
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Re: Euros

Post by JAM » Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:57 am

KN - I agree with part of that statement, the fact that both the Scots LB would walk into the squad. However, our best LB isnt the RB that played there at the weekend, he is, imo, our best RB. Our best LB was sitting on the bench (Shaw)


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