Euros

AshWFC
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Re: Euros

Post by AshWFC » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:03 pm

I don't think this forum would be much more forgiving if we failed to beat a team who were a 12-1 shot against us.

But you're right... it's convenient how everyone seems to have ignored the fact we've just qualified, and if you strip away the derby element and disparity between the teams it's a better point for us than it is for them in the sense it gets us through to the next stage, whereas it only barely keeps the Scots alive in the tournament (whilst obviously being a decent result for them). I actually thought the defence and goalkeeper all played well and it'd be difficult to change any of them. Front four were all well off it and the midfield was bang average.

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Re: Euros

Post by Red and White Army » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:25 pm

Yeah.. given the previously discussed way 24 teams go in to 16, there isn’t much advantage of finishing 1st or 2nd (or even 3rd) as you’ll very likely run in to Belgium/Italy/France/Portugal/Holland in the QFs either way. And none of the QFs are at Wembley.

I expect we’ll make a fair few changes for the Czech game with Kane possibly getting a ‘rest’ after his performances in the first two matches.

Croatia v Scotland should be an interesting game as it’s a must win for them both.

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Re: Euros

Post by JAM » Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:06 am

So whats the thoughts for the games tonight

Personally, I think we win and Kane will get a goal. Win puts us top of the group and everyone will be happy again (until tomorrow when we realise who we have got in the last 16). With no Mount I am hoping Grealish gets a start

as for the other game, that could be either a nervy affair or an exciting match, as a draw is no good for either team and will knock both out. Croatia are beatable, but can Scotland find the goals to do it.

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Re: Euros

Post by Kingfield Ender » Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:15 am

England will win, the Czechs wont want to win the group but we are under massive pressure to perform

Scotland?, we've seen this one before, they will be on the brink of a glorious win to take them through, only for Croatia to equalise late on and then win via an own goal in the 93rd minute
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Re: Euros

Post by Kanu's Nan » Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:17 am

Unfortunately KE I think you're bob on. Play the tape!

We don't have the goals in the side to beat Croatia if they score first. So it'll be interesting to see if Steve Clarke sends us out to stay in the game or to get going fast - the former more likely and more what we are good at. Expect us to score around the 40th minute mark then try and hold on for dear life, concede around the 75th min mark having taken off Adams and McGinn then concede another whilst playing Hanley up front.
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Re: Euros

Post by Kingfield Ender » Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:22 am

What annoys me is people saying we dont want to play France, Germany or Portugal in the next round

We're going to have to play them at some point if we want to win the thing, and for some reason we seem to perform a bit better against better teams, but as with Scotland, we'll get France, outplay them but not win and then lose on pens. Play the tape

I can't think of a time in my lifetime when we had better players than we have now, I like Southgate but he seems afraid of letting them off the leash or dropping a few. I'd drop Kane and play Calvert-Lewin, get some crosses in and let him do what he does in the premier league
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Re: Euros

Post by JAM » Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:40 am

I agree that Kane looks like he needs a rest, but Southgate has already stated that he is starting, so thats not going to happen. Its been a surprise that he has actually subbed him in both games so far

there has been a lot of talk about finishing 2nd is an easier route than topping the group. If we finish 2nd we will get the team that finishes 2nd in the Spain group, but will also be on the same side of the draw as Belgium, Italy and the team that finishes top of the France group. If we win the group, we will get the team that finishes 2nd in the France group in the next round, then more than likely the team that finishes top of the Spain group in the QFs and be on the same side of the draw as Holland. I know which side of the draw seems to be turning out to be slightly easier at the moment.

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Re: Euros

Post by Reading Card » Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:47 am

Don't forget winning the group gets us home advantage even if it is against France, Germany or Portugal.

We are not going far in this tournament if Kane isn't scoring, we need to play him- hopefully he gets his goal and decent performance then we can take him off for rest. I would start him for sure.

Maguire and Henderson to start apparently too.

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Re: Euros

Post by AshWFC » Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:49 am

Wanting to top the group is one thing, but I don't know why we wouldn't take the opportunity to rest a few players. Kane isn't the only one who has simply played too many games recently and is labouring out there.

At the back Stones needs a rest and Maguire probably needs minutes if he's available at all. Likewise, Henderson needs minutes in midfield.

I'd drop/rest all of the front four. Grealish & Rashford deserve the chance to play their way into contention and Calvert-Lewin needs minutes as someone who would need to come on in the knockouts if we're chasing a goal.

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Re: Euros

Post by Kingfield Ender » Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:57 am

If you are serious about winning it you'll probably need to face 3 top teams anyway

I just want us to play a bit instead of our current safety first approach
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Re: Euros

Post by JAM » Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:58 am

Not sure Southgate is a manager who will rest & rotate for the sake of it, so dont expect too many changes tonight. I also think he has his 'favourites', hence why Kane will start.

He already has to make 1 as Mount cant play. Rumours are Henderson and Maguire are starting, so that will be 3 changes. There may be 1 more (1 of the FBs maybe) but I think that will be it. Shame for the 2 that drop out for Henderson and Maguire (assuming Mount isnt 1 of them) as I think the 2 CBs and 2 DMs have been are best players so far

However, I agree that others need some minutes, esp in the attacking 3rd, in case they are needed later in the tournament

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Re: Euros

Post by Red and White Army » Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:50 am

I think there’s a balance between ‘resting’ players and keeping the team together to build confidence. I’d say we get more out of a 4-0 win with Kane, Foden and Sterling scoring than a 0-0 draw with 11 players rested.

It’s not as clear cut as 2018 when it was definitely better to finish 2nd in the group. its unlikely but not inconceivable that winning our group could lead to playing Hungary in the last 16 and Sweden in the QFs.

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Re: Euros

Post by Igor » Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:08 pm

Some fantastic attacking football from Denmark last night. England have seemed to give it a go for 5-10 minutes at the start of each half then ease off. It’s been a bit weird.

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Re: Euros

Post by celtic card » Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:13 pm

Kanu's Nan wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:17 am
Expect us to score around the 40th minute mark then try and hold on for dear life, concede around the 75th min mark having taken off Adams and McGinn then concede another whilst playing Hanley up front.
This is exactly what will happen.

Gilmour will be a big miss. I really hope he moves McTominay into midfield and puts Cooper or Hendry into defence. I suspect it’ll be Armstrong who comes in, with McTominay staying in the back three. Armstrong’s a lovely player, but he doesn’t do what Gilmour/McGregor/McTominay do in midfield, which is why we had no control of midfield against the Czechs.

I expect England to win reasonably comfortably tonight. Mount will be a big miss. He’s impressed me so far.

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Re: Euros

Post by Wafflebutt » Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:56 pm

Igor wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:08 pm
Some fantastic attacking football from Denmark last night. England have seemed to give it a go for 5-10 minutes at the start of each half then ease off. It’s been a bit weird.

I was fully caught up in that game and totally a Denmark supporter for the duration.
Was a cracking game.

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Re: Euros

Post by Igor » Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:52 pm

Wafflebutt wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:56 pm
Igor wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:08 pm
Some fantastic attacking football from Denmark last night. England have seemed to give it a go for 5-10 minutes at the start of each half then ease off. It’s been a bit weird.

I was fully caught up in that game and totally a Denmark supporter for the duration.
Was a cracking game.
Danny Murphy sounded borderline enthusiastic at times. Must have been good.

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Re: Euros

Post by Bobbo » Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:58 pm

Wafflebutt wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:56 pm
I was fully caught up in that game and totally a Denmark supporter for the duration.
Was a cracking game.
I wonder who could support Russia but the Russian! The only thought of Putin the First Emperor of Modern Russia...no comment.
80)

Quod non necat emunit.

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Re: Euros

Post by Red and White Army » Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:16 pm

Igor wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:08 pm
Some fantastic attacking football from Denmark last night. England have seemed to give it a go for 5-10 minutes at the start of each half then ease off. It’s been a bit weird.
I think that’s partly due to the format where 1 win and a draw basically guarantees you to get through. A draw v Scotland wasn’t actually a terrible result taken in isolation.

Whereas Denmark had to go for it last night given they lost their first 2 matches.

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Re: Euros

Post by Red and White Army » Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:45 pm

Kanu's Nan wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:17 am
Unfortunately KE I think you're bob on. Play the tape!

We don't have the goals in the side to beat Croatia if they score first. So it'll be interesting to see if Steve Clarke sends us out to stay in the game or to get going fast - the former more likely and more what we are good at. Expect us to score around the 40th minute mark then try and hold on for dear life, concede around the 75th min mark having taken off Adams and McGinn then concede another whilst playing Hanley up front.
Well.. Scotland scored in the 42nd minute and conceded in the 77th. Not a bad prediction.

If only Hanley hadnt got injured then you may have put him up front…

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Re: Euros

Post by JAM » Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:44 am

Last night (and overall)

positives - played well 1st half and should have put the game to bed when on top, instead of panicking at the end that the Czechs were going to nick one.
Glad he played Grealish, who was everywhere at the start of the game, as was Saka, who looks a prospect
Maguire and Henderson both got time on the pitch. They could be vital moving on
3 games, 2 wins, no goals conceded, job done. The biggest concern at the start was the defence, and there will be tougher tests to come, but so far so good

negatives - the fact that we started the Croatia & Czech games well, and then faded badly as the games went on. Better teams could punish that
Southgate and the use of the squad. Its obvious to everyone that Kane is struggling, but Southgate seems desperate for him to score. Bar the 1 chance last night, which a confident Kane would have scored, he didnt do alot. Thought Calvert-Lewin should have been given some game time last night. Also Sancho only getting 10 minutes at the end seemed to be at least 10 minutes too late, should have been on much earlier

The Last 16 game will be tough whoever it is (unless somehow Hungary finish 2nd) but if we wish to progress, we are certainly on the easier side of the draw.

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Re: Euros

Post by Kanu's Nan » Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:09 pm

Red and White Army wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:45 pm
Kanu's Nan wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:17 am
Unfortunately KE I think you're bob on. Play the tape!

We don't have the goals in the side to beat Croatia if they score first. So it'll be interesting to see if Steve Clarke sends us out to stay in the game or to get going fast - the former more likely and more what we are good at. Expect us to score around the 40th minute mark then try and hold on for dear life, concede around the 75th min mark having taken off Adams and McGinn then concede another whilst playing Hanley up front.
Well.. Scotland scored in the 42nd minute and conceded in the 77th. Not a bad prediction.

If only Hanley hadnt got injured then you may have put him up front…
Essentially we had a centre half up front as it was with Dykes. Hopeless.

How thoroughly frustrating - got back in the game, dropped deeper and deeper to allow Modric, the most talented player on the pitch, the space to hit the shot he did.

McGregor was excellent last night, as were Tierney and Marshall. McGinn drifted, Armstrong a passenger aside from his contribution to the goal, Robertson was penned in for the most part and the Croatians understandably targeted the abject O'Donnell.

I'm relatively upbeat - I think there's enough good young players coming through to improve the problem positions that we might get knocked out in the groups in Qatar too.
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Re: Euros

Post by celtic card » Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:11 pm

Kanu's Nan wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:09 pm
Red and White Army wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:45 pm


Well.. Scotland scored in the 42nd minute and conceded in the 77th. Not a bad prediction.

If only Hanley hadnt got injured then you may have put him up front…
Essentially we had a centre half up front as it was with Dykes. Hopeless.

How thoroughly frustrating - got back in the game, dropped deeper and deeper to allow Modric, the most talented player on the pitch, the space to hit the shot he did.

McGregor was excellent last night, as were Tierney and Marshall. McGinn drifted, Armstrong a passenger aside from his contribution to the goal, Robertson was penned in for the most part and the Croatians understandably targeted the abject O'Donnell.

I'm relatively upbeat - I think there's enough good young players coming through to improve the problem positions that we might get knocked out in the groups in Qatar too.
No complaints about the result. Croatia looked significantly better than England and the Czech Republic.

I’m frustrated that we went with Armstrong again. Like I said before, great player, but doesn’t offer enough defensively. Not his fault - that’s not his game. As with the Czech game, we had no control in midfield. Hence the endless lumping the ball up to Dykes, and Croatia having some fun games of piggy in the middle. Agree that McGregor was excellent, as he was against England. But he was outnumbered too often. Essentially, we went with a 5-1-2-2 formation. Against England it was a 5-2-1-2, and we bossed the midfield. We were chasing shadows for large parts of the game last night. I thought McGinn had his best game of the tournament though, and Adams was quality again.

Not sure how to to feel going forward. I rate Clarke, and he deserves huge credit for finding a system that gets the best out of Robertson and Tierney at the same time. Unfortunately, that system leaves us a little short in midfield. And some of our more creative wide players don’t get a look in. Would’ve loved to have seen more of James Forrest in the tournament. Christie too. A lot of our good midfielders are more suited to a 4-4-2 or a 4-5-1. Armstrong for one.

It’s a weird one. I feel like Clarke is almost better suited to a team without superstars. It’s great that we have a system that gets the best out of Robertson and Tierney, but the flipside is that we’re kinda captive to that system. Still, like you, I’m hopeful for the future. Full-backs/wing-backs are so important these days. We’ve got world class down the left and Patterson looks decent from what I’ve seen. Then there’s Billy Gilmour. He’s got a wee brother who’s pretty handy too, from what I’ve heard...

Anyway, I still fancy Italy to win. Have been impressed by Belgium and Germany. Denmark are a dark horse. They were very impressive in the first half against Belgium and blew Russia away. I’ll stick with my pre-tournament prediction for England: knocked out on penalties by Germany.

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Re: Euros

Post by Kanu's Nan » Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:16 pm

Same thoughts on Clarke. Ultimately strip everything away from how and when we conceded goals, you find a man who didn't know how to stick or twist never mind which one to choose. Was clear we needed to fight fire with fire as we weren't going to keep them out and they seemed (at best) a bit scared of the pace and high ball combo down the left.
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Re: Euros

Post by Cardinal96 » Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:01 pm

Interesting that we would have drawn Spain had we finished second, so winning the group seems to have worked out for us. We're now on the same side of the draw as Wales, Denmark, Sweden and Netherlands, whilst Croatia are on the same side of the draw as Belgium, Italy, Austria and Spain.

Edit: Looking at it now, unless France win by more than two goals and Germany also win tonight, 3rd place from that group will also qualify for the other side of the draw (3rd in that group will play Belgium).

It also means if we do manage to beat Group F's runner-up in the Ro16, we will face either Sweden or Ukraine in the quarter finals, and then Wales, Denmark, Czech Republic or Netherlands in the semi's.

Seems to have worked out quite nicely!

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Re: Euros

Post by Red and White Army » Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:25 pm

The draw has worked out very nicely indeed. The one big IF is IF we manage to beat Germany. Which we probably won't.

It's quite funny the 'arrogant English fan' strawman other countries seem to have invented - I don't know anyone who thinks we'll beat Germany.


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