Mr Ingram - put football first

jonwoozley
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Mr Ingram - put football first

Post by jonwoozley » Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:53 am

Dowse is absolutely right in his Friday catch up, this is a football club first.
If WFC needs training pitches, then that should be incorporated into any future plans before it's too late.
We hear that the club will benefit from retail outlets in the new development, just at the time when shops are closing and stand empty.
You have clubs like Bromley, Sutton, Harrogate overtaking us by renting out pitches.
Therefore the obvious solution is to allow some space for training pitches at Kingfield that not only allow the team to train but also generate income daily.
18 years on, there is still time for Mr Ingram to become that true hero, rather than the part asset stripper that he was supposedly protecting us from.

I'm not overly impressed with Mr Ingram's track history:
In 2002 he becomes a benefactor, signing Patmore and Sharpling, to ensure that an indebted club becomes more so and ensures they have no alternative but to accept his takeover.
He then separates and strips the club of the Holdings company. This is the part he was after, while feeding the club £500k per year to piss away on incompetent managers and overpaid journeyman. A small amount compared to the potential profit from developing the site.
If the club was truly put first:
We did not need to sign £110,000 worth of strikers.
We did not need to go full-time. At least not until new income streams had started.

The smaller annual debt coupled with a decent manager would have made the club more viable.
The club could have been allowed to retain more land to become financially self sufficient.
The holdings company could have made money from a smaller development.
The club could have built the phase 2 stand, complete with statues of Gosden, Ingram, Mortimore and Chapple.

How much money does someone need?
We all come in and go out with nothing.
Mr Ingram, more than most, should know that there are more important things in life than profit and he could still be a real legend. Put the club first.
Dual meditates,
Non habetis argentum.

DavetheBountyHunter
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Re: Mr Ingram - put football first

Post by DavetheBountyHunter » Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:36 am

I know you go off on a tangent about historical decisions at the club, but what has the current development got to do with Chris Ingram?

I’m really not sure how you can dress up someone who put millions into keeping the club going as a potentially negative character. CI perhaps let a few clowns make the day to day decisions, but he saved the club and tried to give us a platform to push on. It didn’t work. He stepped aside and had to come back when SA continued the spending without the money to back it up. I wouldn’t be surprised if you tried to blame Jon Davies for one of Wall’s misses on Tuesday.
Scorer of possibly the greatest goal in the history of the Woking FC Supporters' team

AndyT
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Re: Mr Ingram - put football first

Post by AndyT » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:38 am

Where will these pitches go? The area available for the development is tight enough as it is.

When Dowse talks about training facilities is he talking about Woking’s very own, private facility or finding better facilities in the area to use? Do you think many clubs at our level or below have their own training facilities? The only ones who might have have them because they have a rich benefactor who built it for them something we don’t have.

Quite simply Chris Ingram saved this club from going into liquidation and folding, lost forever, becoming another AFC.... I’m in no doubt that mistakes were made by him and many others but to spout off what you have is just wrong. Chris isn’t /wasn’t a particularly wealthy man, yes very comfortably off and had a nice sum to spend when he sold off his business but it wasn’t a life changing sum compared to the money available to some who have ‘invested’ into football clubs.

I believe Chris bailed us out to the tune of £4-5 million so did you just expect him (or more importantly his family) just to write this off? Ever PJ is trying to get back some of the money he put into WFC that kept us going so do you deny him this right as well, I certainly don’t. From my point of view PJ should get all his money back with interest such is the debt we owe him.

I agree that proper training facilities perhaps should have been part of the plan (and do you know that they weren’t or that there are plans in the future for such facilities) but unfortunately a lot of what Dowse (and quite a few others on here) want are just pipe dreams at present. They may come true in the future but in reality we have to live in the present and immediate future and make the best of what we have.

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Re: Mr Ingram - put football first

Post by Meerkat » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:21 pm

£65m isn’t a life changing sum??
Ingram may have saved the club but when he turned up we had a ground. He then took the ground AND left us with £4m in debt.
The club only need their own training facilities if it is full time, which isn’t soon, and isn’t permanent.

Stuwfc
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Re: Mr Ingram - put football first

Post by Stuwfc » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:42 pm

jonwoozley wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:53 am
Dowse is absolutely right in his Friday catch up, this is a football club first.
If WFC needs training pitches, then that should be incorporated into any future plans before it's too late.
We hear that the club will benefit from retail outlets in the new development, just at the time when shops are closing and stand empty.
You have clubs like Bromley, Sutton, Harrogate overtaking us by renting out pitches.
Therefore the obvious solution is to allow some space for training pitches at Kingfield that not only allow the team to train but also generate income daily.
18 years on, there is still time for Mr Ingram to become that true hero, rather than the part asset stripper that he was supposedly protecting us from.

I'm not overly impressed with Mr Ingram's track history:
In 2002 he becomes a benefactor, signing Patmore and Sharpling, to ensure that an indebted club becomes more so and ensures they have no alternative but to accept his takeover.
He then separates and strips the club of the Holdings company. This is the part he was after, while feeding the club £500k per year to piss away on incompetent managers and overpaid journeyman. A small amount compared to the potential profit from developing the site.
If the club was truly put first:
We did not need to sign £110,000 worth of strikers.
We did not need to go full-time. At least not until new income streams had started.

The smaller annual debt coupled with a decent manager would have made the club more viable.
The club could have been allowed to retain more land to become financially self sufficient.
The holdings company could have made money from a smaller development.
The club could have built the phase 2 stand, complete with statues of Gosden, Ingram, Mortimore and Chapple.

How much money does someone need?
We all come in and go out with nothing.
Mr Ingram, more than most, should know that there are more important things in life than profit and he could still be a real legend. Put the club first.
At last a post from someone who’s seen through the 30 year smokescreen . Dave still won’t have it he’s probably a flat earther as well

Argee
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Re: Mr Ingram - put football first

Post by Argee » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:48 pm

How quickly the hero is portrayed as the villain!
As I understand it, yes the club did have a ground but also huge debts to go with it, sufficient to see an end to Woking football club. Chris stepped in and saved the club from extinction.
Yes he put the freehold assets in a company away from the hands of those who would redevelop the ground without a second thought and that way protected football at Kingfield.
He also leased the entire ground needed by Woking for football back to the club for over a 100 years at a peppercorn rent £1 per annum I believe. This act alone would tie the hands of the holding company from developing the site without the club's agreement thus protecting the club and is proof if proof is needed that he had the interests of the club at heart and not his own holding company.
A new chairman came along and yes Chris saved the club again.
Along the way he has also put in some £4m. What more did anyone want him to do?
To suggest Chris did all this to line his own pocket is not only absurd but libellous.

DavetheBountyHunter
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Re: Mr Ingram - put football first

Post by DavetheBountyHunter » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:07 pm

Stuwfc wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:42 pm
jonwoozley wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:53 am
Dowse is absolutely right in his Friday catch up, this is a football club first.
If WFC needs training pitches, then that should be incorporated into any future plans before it's too late.
We hear that the club will benefit from retail outlets in the new development, just at the time when shops are closing and stand empty.
You have clubs like Bromley, Sutton, Harrogate overtaking us by renting out pitches.
Therefore the obvious solution is to allow some space for training pitches at Kingfield that not only allow the team to train but also generate income daily.
18 years on, there is still time for Mr Ingram to become that true hero, rather than the part asset stripper that he was supposedly protecting us from.

I'm not overly impressed with Mr Ingram's track history:
In 2002 he becomes a benefactor, signing Patmore and Sharpling, to ensure that an indebted club becomes more so and ensures they have no alternative but to accept his takeover.
He then separates and strips the club of the Holdings company. This is the part he was after, while feeding the club £500k per year to piss away on incompetent managers and overpaid journeyman. A small amount compared to the potential profit from developing the site.
If the club was truly put first:
We did not need to sign £110,000 worth of strikers.
We did not need to go full-time. At least not until new income streams had started.

The smaller annual debt coupled with a decent manager would have made the club more viable.
The club could have been allowed to retain more land to become financially self sufficient.
The holdings company could have made money from a smaller development.
The club could have built the phase 2 stand, complete with statues of Gosden, Ingram, Mortimore and Chapple.

How much money does someone need?
We all come in and go out with nothing.
Mr Ingram, more than most, should know that there are more important things in life than profit and he could still be a real legend. Put the club first.
At last a post from someone who’s seen through the 30 year smokescreen . Dave still won’t have it he’s probably a flat earther as well
It’s always reassuring to be on the other side of an argument to the village idiot.
Scorer of possibly the greatest goal in the history of the Woking FC Supporters' team

Kingfield Ender
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Re: Mr Ingram - put football first

Post by Kingfield Ender » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:02 pm

Mr Ingram put your health first
Still Plugging away in the absence of the great one

Cardbourne
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Re: Mr Ingram - put football first

Post by Cardbourne » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:47 pm

AndyT wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:38 am
Where will these pitches go? The area available for the development is tight enough as it is.

When Dowse talks about training facilities is he talking about Woking’s very own, private facility or finding better facilities in the area to use? Do you think many clubs at our level or below have their own training facilities? The only ones who might have have them because they have a rich benefactor who built it for them something we don’t have.

Quite simply Chris Ingram saved this club from going into liquidation and folding, lost forever, becoming another AFC.... I’m in no doubt that mistakes were made by him and many others but to spout off what you have is just wrong. Chris isn’t /wasn’t a particularly wealthy man, yes very comfortably off and had a nice sum to spend when he sold off his business but it wasn’t a life changing sum compared to the money available to some who have ‘invested’ into football clubs.

I believe Chris bailed us out to the tune of £4-5 million so did you just expect him (or more importantly his family) just to write this off? Ever PJ is trying to get back some of the money he put into WFC that kept us going so do you deny him this right as well, I certainly don’t. From my point of view PJ should get all his money back with interest such is the debt we owe him.

I agree that proper training facilities perhaps should have been part of the plan (and do you know that they weren’t or that there are plans in the future for such facilities) but unfortunately a lot of what Dowse (and quite a few others on here) want are just pipe dreams at present. They may come true in the future but in reality we have to live in the present and immediate future and make the best of what we have.

Agree with all this, apart from the the statement he wasn't a particularly a wealthy man. I was led to believe he was extremely wealthy.. I remember seeing him in the magazine 442 placing him in the top 30 richest club owners in England, back in the early noughties.

Ashcard
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Re: Mr Ingram - put football first

Post by Ashcard » Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:54 pm

Cardbourne wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:47 pm
AndyT wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:38 am
Where will these pitches go? The area available for the development is tight enough as it is.

When Dowse talks about training facilities is he talking about Woking’s very own, private facility or finding better facilities in the area to use? Do you think many clubs at our level or below have their own training facilities? The only ones who might have have them because they have a rich benefactor who built it for them something we don’t have.

Quite simply Chris Ingram saved this club from going into liquidation and folding, lost forever, becoming another AFC.... I’m in no doubt that mistakes were made by him and many others but to spout off what you have is just wrong. Chris isn’t /wasn’t a particularly wealthy man, yes very comfortably off and had a nice sum to spend when he sold off his business but it wasn’t a life changing sum compared to the money available to some who have ‘invested’ into football clubs.

I believe Chris bailed us out to the tune of £4-5 million so did you just expect him (or more importantly his family) just to write this off? Ever PJ is trying to get back some of the money he put into WFC that kept us going so do you deny him this right as well, I certainly don’t. From my point of view PJ should get all his money back with interest such is the debt we owe him.

I agree that proper training facilities perhaps should have been part of the plan (and do you know that they weren’t or that there are plans in the future for such facilities) but unfortunately a lot of what Dowse (and quite a few others on here) want are just pipe dreams at present. They may come true in the future but in reality we have to live in the present and immediate future and make the best of what we have.

Agree with all this, apart from the the statement he wasn't a particularly a wealthy man. I was led to believe he was extremely wealthy.. I remember seeing him in the magazine 442 placing him in the top 30 richest club owners in England, back in the early noughties.
Not sure about now but at the time he first got involved behind the scenes at WFC, he was in the Times rich list.

DavetheBountyHunter
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Re: Mr Ingram - put football first

Post by DavetheBountyHunter » Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:07 pm

IIRC he purchased the club within a year of selling his media agency. He then put investments into a number of smaller businesses (including, I think, the parent company of the non league paper), but was never anywhere near being worth £60M again after that. It was a one off windfall and he put a decent chunk of that into the FC.
Scorer of possibly the greatest goal in the history of the Woking FC Supporters' team

Meerkat
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Re: Mr Ingram - put football first

Post by Meerkat » Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:13 pm

The Ingram money was debt that the club had to pay interest on though right??


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