Woking fans – support our new stadium regeneration

Nonsense Potter
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Re: Woking fans – support our new stadium regeneration

Post by Nonsense Potter » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:21 am

To echo the post above - I would seriously question anything being put out by SWAG at present. They’re quite good at quoting stuff out of context as fact, when quite often the opposite is often what’s going on. They also don’t like being challenged on the rubbish they’re spouting and can become abuse TO THE CORE!
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Phoenix1959
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Re: Woking fans – support our new stadium regeneration

Post by Phoenix1959 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:27 pm

Chobham Card wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:14 am
Ian B wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:19 pm
According to a SWAG post on Facebook, the Planning Inspector thinks there would be over-density if the current housing proposals were to ahead.
I saw this on the Woking Live group. Some of the NIMBYs are really celebrating it, but in truth all it means is that the inspector doesn't know what the exact numbers are. From the letter (dry language incoming):

"Unlike other sites which the SADPD seeks to allocate, no indicative housing yield is assumed and I am mindful that there has been a wide range of dwelling numbers suggested from various quarters over the course of the plan’s preparation."

"Accordingly, to ensure that Policy UA44 is soundly based in these regards an indicative quantum of residential development should be included, alongside the other modifications already discussed at the hearing. The figure should be based on an assessment of the developable land available over and above the proportion of the siterequired for the football stadium and associated retailing and be in line with the indicative densities set out in Policy CS10 of the Core Strategy."

It's been posted as a "rejection" and has a massive paragraph from SWAG about how the dev should "do the honourable thing" and all that nonsense, but it's not the silver dagger it's being presented as.
As someone who has had considerable interaction with councils and their planning departments/officials I wouldn't let that letter from the planning Inspector concern you. What he is actually doing is advising that a potential loophole (ie lack of information which could lead to refusal) should be closed. He has also advised on how that information should be formulated especially the need to show that the proposed densities do comply with the "Core Strategy".

Adhering to the Core Strategy is the most essential part of the planning application, as long as everything applied for complies with that it makes it much harder for peoples objections to be successful.

Also don't be disheartened if the first, second or even third application doesn't pass, Planning will have to object because there will certainly be things in the plan that fall foul of planning regulations, doesn't mean it wont pass eventually because after a little tinkering the plans will go to committee for approval and they can overrule any objections on the basis the development is of overall benefit to the community.

As long as you have the will of the council behind you your objectors can SWAGer around all they like, they wont stop it in the end

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Re: Woking fans – support our new stadium regeneration

Post by Meerkat » Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:52 am

On social media they are saying the planning inspector has rejected.
“Firm in his recommendation that the site is not suitable” for the density and that affordable should be 50%
Is this true or SWAG flexing the truth again?

Nonsense Potter
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Re: Woking fans – support our new stadium regeneration

Post by Nonsense Potter » Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:19 am

Considering only about 10% of their output has been accurate, what do you think?
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Re: Woking fans – support our new stadium regeneration

Post by Chobham Card » Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:28 am

Meerkat wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:52 am
On social media they are saying the planning inspector has rejected.
“Firm in his recommendation that the site is not suitable” for the density and that affordable should be 50%
Is this true or SWAG flexing the truth again?
For context and for everyone to make up their own mind, the full letter is here. The bit that concerns us is points 10-12.

When you read all of the points in their full context, there are a few unarguable things that stand out to me:
  • The word "rejection" or anything similar to it is never used, despite SWAG titling their letter as "Planning Inspector rejects xxx".
  • The only way in which this letter says that the plan "does not accord with the framework" is that the numbers aren't set in stone - "no housing yield is assumed" - so the inspector can't make a judgement.
  • There is no recommendation made in the text regarding the wider build either.
What SWAG has done in its material is to take the phrase "does not accord with the framework" out of its context, making it sound like a wider condemnation of the plan, which is dishonest in the extreme. They do so alongside two paragraphs from a SWAG spokesperson, incorrectly suggesting a united front.

They then compare the housing density guidelines Core Strategy section 10 - which they're absolutely right to reference - alongside their interpretation of what the density will be, despite the inspector they've referenced specifically saying that this number was unclear.

They are right to indicate that the CS does indicate 50% of new housing should be affordable. That won't be true of this build. But unless I'm mistaken, WBC has only hit its affordable housing targets 2/3 times in the previous decade, and this build will triple the amount of affordable homes built in the last two years. I know which side of that debate I stand on.

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Re: Woking fans – support our new stadium regeneration

Post by Meerkat » Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:43 am

Thank you sir.

Cardinal96
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Re: Woking fans – support our new stadium regeneration

Post by Cardinal96 » Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:16 am

That is in no way a rejection by the planning inspectorate. I'm not sure what SWAG hope to achieve by claiming it as such, but its very dishonest.

Am I right that their (the planning inspector) role at this stage is only to examine the draft site allocation plan? Its not their job to assess the application itself at this stage.

Its interesting to read the 2019 Draft DPD . Much of the application seems to fit within its guidelines as you'd expect, except arguably not addressing Westfield Avenue (some street frontage here would tick this box) and not hitting the 40% affordable target.

Its interesting that the October 2018 DPD states that the site might yield 992 units and 10000sqm of commercial space yet the 2019 one doesn't put a figure on it. Perhaps this is the ambiguity the planning inspectorate describes.

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Re: Woking fans – support our new stadium regeneration

Post by AndyT » Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:22 am

Yet again another excellent response from CC.

Personally I hate the term 'Affordable Housing' because there actually isn't a definition of what affordable housing is. Ultimately what is definitive is that housing in the south east (and especially London) is very unaffordable and out of the reach of a large amount of people (especially our younger citizens).

I'm not quite sure how you do it but isn't time SWAG were reported for their total untruthful, if not fraudulent, claims made by them. Surely lying in a public arena has to be stamped upon.

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Re: Woking fans – support our new stadium regeneration

Post by JGreenwood » Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:54 pm

Hopefully it won't have an impact, but it is frustrating. The N&M's front page this week now says the development could be HALTED by the inspector. SWAG seem to have the editorial team publishing whatever they claim.

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Re: Woking fans – support our new stadium regeneration

Post by Cardelia » Thu Feb 20, 2020 2:53 pm

AndyT wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:22 am
I'm not quite sure how you do it but isn't time SWAG were reported for their total untruthful, if not fraudulent, claims made by them. Surely lying in a public arena has to be stamped upon.
If the people at the very top of our government are allowed to get away with lying about matters of national importance, there is absolutely no chance that a bunch of NIMBYs from a non-descript commuter town will be called to account for lying about a relatively small and inconsequential residential development. It sucks, but that's the world we now live in.
JGreenwood wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:54 pm
Hopefully it won't have an impact, but it is frustrating. The N&M's front page this week now says the development could be HALTED by the inspector. SWAG seem to have the editorial team publishing whatever they claim.
Again, if the national papers are willing to print the lies and mistruths that comes from the people in power without bothering to check for accuracy, there's no chance a local rag will bother to do something as simple as check facts. They'll print whatever they think will sell more papers.

Cardinal96
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Re: Woking fans – support our new stadium regeneration

Post by Cardinal96 » Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:54 pm

AndyT wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:22 am
Personally I hate the term 'Affordable Housing' because there actually isn't a definition of what affordable housing is. Ultimately what is definitive is that housing in the south east (and especially London) is very unaffordable and out of the reach of a large amount of people (especially our younger citizens).

There is a definition for affordable housing. Granted, some isn't as 'affordable ' as others (ie Intermediate rent) but I'm a strong believer that its essential to help young people onto the housing ladder. Very few young people will be able to afford market prices for these new apartments so maximising affordable units will really help local people hoping to live in these. With that being said, today's news (see link) is very exciting- over 400 units will now be 'affordable' which is fantastic news!

https://wokingcommunitystadium.com/affordable-housing/

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Re: Woking fans – support our new stadium regeneration

Post by AndyT » Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:16 am

Cardinal96 wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:54 pm
AndyT wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:22 am
Personally I hate the term 'Affordable Housing' because there actually isn't a definition of what affordable housing is. Ultimately what is definitive is that housing in the south east (and especially London) is very unaffordable and out of the reach of a large amount of people (especially our younger citizens).

There is a definition for affordable housing. Granted, some isn't as 'affordable ' as others (ie Intermediate rent) but I'm a strong believer that its essential to help young people onto the housing ladder. Very few young people will be able to afford market prices for these new apartments so maximising affordable units will really help local people hoping to live in these. With that being said, today's news (see link) is very exciting- over 400 units will now be 'affordable' which is fantastic news!

https://wokingcommunitystadium.com/affordable-housing/
Okay so what is this definition? Is it a monetary definition? Is 'affordable' housing a one bedroom flat available for £250,000 instead of £350,000? or a three bedroom house for £350,000 instead of £500,000?

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Re: Woking fans – support our new stadium regeneration

Post by Nonsense Potter » Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:44 am

Affordable = 60% to 80% of market value
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Re: Woking fans – support our new stadium regeneration

Post by AndyT » Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:48 am

DavetheBountyHunter wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:44 am
Affordable = 60% to 80% of market value
That's not affordable though is it! Not to somebody who's on a national average wage.

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Re: Woking fans – support our new stadium regeneration

Post by Nonsense Potter » Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:51 am

It’s more affordable than it would have been!
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Re: Woking fans – support our new stadium regeneration

Post by AndyT » Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:08 pm

DavetheBountyHunter wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:51 am
It’s more affordable than it would have been!
Not if you can't afford it.

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Re: Woking fans – support our new stadium regeneration

Post by Nonsense Potter » Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:49 pm

What’s the average wage? How many people buy a place on their own these days (my two properties were both purchased between two people)? If two people are earning £30K (I assume the average in Surrey is higher btw), then some of these properties come into play if you’re talking x5 the salaries.
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Re: Woking fans – support our new stadium regeneration

Post by Cardinal96 » Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:10 pm

Take a look at this link Andy.

Granted, a 20% reduction in the market price or market rent won't be enough for many. Affordable with a capital A doesn't mean affordable for all.

I don't know what type of affordable housing will be provided here, but given the councils involvement I hope some is for social rent (so should go to those most in need). Would be interesting to know.

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Re: Woking fans – support our new stadium regeneration

Post by Chobham Card » Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:15 pm

AndyT wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:08 pm
DavetheBountyHunter wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:51 am
It’s more affordable than it would have been!
Not if you can't afford it.
You're both right. It's well established that Surrey house prices take the certified piss, but schemes that reduce the price as much as possible are always going to be welcome.

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Re: Woking fans – support our new stadium regeneration

Post by kansasCard » Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:46 pm

more affordable based on existing Surrey prices. We know that we have the golden postcode zone just down the road which drives up house prices and desirability. Want something even more affordable? Move to Lancashire?

Rank
Town
Average property value (2018)
Average household income (2017)
Affordability ratio (2018)
1. Richmond, Surrey £992,356 £56,537 17.55
2. Leatherhead, Surrey £792,513 £60,013 13.21
3. Kingston Upon Thames, London £707,813 £57,059 12.4
4. Barnet, Hertfordshire £662,042 £53,496 12.38
5. Sevenoaks, Kent £683,824 £57,883 11.81
6. Twickenham, London £747,080 £64,765 11.54
7. Southall, London £382,693 £34,442 11.11
8. Oxford, Oxfordshire £500,765 £45,109 11.1
9. Bath, Somerset £480,013 £43,441 11.05
10. Guildford, Surrey £597,113 £54,259 11

didn't expect to see Barnet or Southall up there....
This space intentionally left blank

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Re: Woking fans – support our new stadium regeneration

Post by Since85 » Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:57 pm

Aldershot ranked 836th I guess?

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Re: Woking fans – support our new stadium regeneration

Post by Chobham Card » Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:52 pm

The government have announced that local elections - including at council level - will be postponed for a year.

Think this is interesting as, for better or for worse, it makes it likely that if the plans were rejected, they'd be resubmitted to the same people. At the same time, councillors might feel more comfortable taking what they'd consider a slight risk if they've got a year to demonstrate their prowess elsewhere. Will be interesting to see how this impacts the planning submission.

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Re: Woking fans – support our new stadium regeneration

Post by ABR » Sat Mar 14, 2020 11:12 am

The development wiill happen. We have a chairmen who lives and breathes WokingvFootball Club and also really cares about the woking area community wise.

Being sceptical, another side who is doing the same has a town that shall we say would be "old Kent Road" on a monopoly board. We are Surrey so yes would be "Park lane , Mayfair" we are poles apart........

Our Chairmen keeps us and the community informed.......do other club......s ?

We will be the only premium club in this area other than Wimbledon and Chelsea.

Who ever Natta Construction are they are after LAND, certainly not a football club.

Some chairmen are not in it for the love of the club........Money is a big influencer, just some have got caught.

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Re: Woking fans – support our new stadium regeneration

Post by Ian B » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:29 pm

The Council planning committee has just rejected proposals for several 30+ storey skyscrapers in Woking town centre, so people will need to live somewhere else...

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Re: Woking fans – support our new stadium regeneration

Post by Meerkat » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:45 pm

Which blocks were those?


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